My new project - 86 - 272 LS
12-01-2011, 01:13 PM
#1
My new project - 86 - 272 LS
Well, when I thought about getting into a cheap offshore boat, I did not have anything near this low in mind. But, this one seemed like it would not go away so I brought it home on the 19th and am making a challenge out of it.
So this is my first foray into the offshore club, thought I would document a low cost boat project. Basically, over the winter I plan on updating this vessel and getting it ready for the water with the financial goal being on the water for $8,000 to $8,500 for the whole package including the trailer. So far, I am out $6,500 as it sits. In this range, I could lose the whole thing and without any injuries, it wouldn’t really matter. This will be a for fun project and let me know what I want next.
The trailer is a large load rite that has a non working hydraulic brake system on it. I am looking at putting electric brakes on it, new fenders, replace the tongue with a standard one, get a spare for the rim, and probably put two tires on it. Have to roll it across the scale at work to see what the total weight is on the axles. The other option is to replace the broken hydraulic lines and use it as is, we will see, still need to research surge brakes. This is a big trailer for the boat, the front post is moved back about 30” from where it was. Have not looked into it, but I would think it would hold a 30’ boat just fine if the axles will take the weight, but just speculating now.
So this is my first foray into the offshore club, thought I would document a low cost boat project. Basically, over the winter I plan on updating this vessel and getting it ready for the water with the financial goal being on the water for $8,000 to $8,500 for the whole package including the trailer. So far, I am out $6,500 as it sits. In this range, I could lose the whole thing and without any injuries, it wouldn’t really matter. This will be a for fun project and let me know what I want next.
The trailer is a large load rite that has a non working hydraulic brake system on it. I am looking at putting electric brakes on it, new fenders, replace the tongue with a standard one, get a spare for the rim, and probably put two tires on it. Have to roll it across the scale at work to see what the total weight is on the axles. The other option is to replace the broken hydraulic lines and use it as is, we will see, still need to research surge brakes. This is a big trailer for the boat, the front post is moved back about 30” from where it was. Have not looked into it, but I would think it would hold a 30’ boat just fine if the axles will take the weight, but just speculating now.
Last edited by befu; 12-01-2011 at 01:17 PM.
12-01-2011, 01:15 PM
#2
mechanicals
The boat is a 1986 Formula 272 LS with 350/alpha’s that look bone stock. Boat has 693 hours on it and engines seem to run fine. Start up nicely once fresh gas was added to tank. We will do a compression test next week and learn more then. The Alphas are “rough”. This was a salt water boat and they seem to work, but they are pitted. Still, if they work that is great, we will have some fun. If they go bad and the boat is worth it, I will spend the $3k on a pair of SEI’s. Boat needs props so I am watching E-bay.
I will be pulling both drives and go through them. Gimble bearings are supposed to be new, we will see. I know some of the gimble assembly bearings will need to be checked. The drives are rough to look at, but we will see how they work. They go up and down as needed, but this is still a big unknown.
I looked at the transom at the drive cutouts and it is solid and looks perfect. Pulled the through hull fittings and they are perfect, dry as the day it was built. Removed the bilge drain fitting, and other than goey black sludge lining the hole, it was solid. Couldn’t push a screwdriver into any of the wood. Looks like I got one that they actually sealed up the transom well on, feel much better about that.
Bottom paint. Who in the hell does that? I will address the bottom paint after we run it some next summer and I know what I want to do with it. But the hull seems to be in pretty good shape despite the bottom paint.
Engine compartment, yeah, this needs to be cleaned up some. The center stringer sounds solid except for 3-4” around the sump pump cutout, which seems rather typical. I want to look into this and see if I can remove the rotted part and seacast it. The top and back section where the motors mount seem fine, but I will look into that also. The bulk head behind the tank, front of the engine compartment, needs some work and this is the worse part of the boat and very typical from the ones I have seen or talked to others about. This is probably the only structural piece I will look at replacing and reinforcing. Everything else looks fine and solid.
I will be pulling both drives and go through them. Gimble bearings are supposed to be new, we will see. I know some of the gimble assembly bearings will need to be checked. The drives are rough to look at, but we will see how they work. They go up and down as needed, but this is still a big unknown.
I looked at the transom at the drive cutouts and it is solid and looks perfect. Pulled the through hull fittings and they are perfect, dry as the day it was built. Removed the bilge drain fitting, and other than goey black sludge lining the hole, it was solid. Couldn’t push a screwdriver into any of the wood. Looks like I got one that they actually sealed up the transom well on, feel much better about that.
Bottom paint. Who in the hell does that? I will address the bottom paint after we run it some next summer and I know what I want to do with it. But the hull seems to be in pretty good shape despite the bottom paint.
Engine compartment, yeah, this needs to be cleaned up some. The center stringer sounds solid except for 3-4” around the sump pump cutout, which seems rather typical. I want to look into this and see if I can remove the rotted part and seacast it. The top and back section where the motors mount seem fine, but I will look into that also. The bulk head behind the tank, front of the engine compartment, needs some work and this is the worse part of the boat and very typical from the ones I have seen or talked to others about. This is probably the only structural piece I will look at replacing and reinforcing. Everything else looks fine and solid.
12-01-2011, 01:17 PM
#3
Interior
Interior is sad. This got wet and never seemed to dry out. The sunpad vinyl was dry and starting to crack, so I took it off. Ply underneath was saturated and coming apart. Foam is still good, so I will replace ply and redo the vinyl on it. Rear seat vinyl and wood is usable, but the support was shoddy so I made a new one from ¾” ply, just need to cover in carpet. Floor is solid and needs a serious cleaning. Side trim pieces need to be redone, I will simplify these as a solid black color and make/recover them myself. Still looking into the chairs. The vinyl is sun beat, but I am going to strengthen the wood some and maybe just make a cover for them and use as is until I decide what to do.
The cabin is pretty bad, but that is fine as I want to redo that eventually. Like I said, the boat was cheap so if I mess it up, oh-well. But I am going to do something different inside as this will only be a day boat. Primary project, see if I can make room for an enclosed head (porta potti) where the old cooler/refridgerator went.
Luckily I have a source for plywood, bearings and hardware so that will not add to the cost. I need to pay for the vinyl, carpet, trailer brakes, tires, props and such from my account.
So, this is my entry into the Formula club.
Brian
The cabin is pretty bad, but that is fine as I want to redo that eventually. Like I said, the boat was cheap so if I mess it up, oh-well. But I am going to do something different inside as this will only be a day boat. Primary project, see if I can make room for an enclosed head (porta potti) where the old cooler/refridgerator went.
Luckily I have a source for plywood, bearings and hardware so that will not add to the cost. I need to pay for the vinyl, carpet, trailer brakes, tires, props and such from my account.
So, this is my entry into the Formula club.
Brian
12-01-2011, 02:34 PM
#5
Registered
Brian,
Welcome...and you got a good on. I had one 25 years ago and almost bought another one on E-bay earlier this week. The Formulas hold up well and have good bones. +
I am re-powering a 255 Liberator as I write this...only because I discovered tat the previous owner had slipped a pair of automotive long blocks in the boat. I didn't know it until a freeze plug rotted out on the port engine. Do yourself a favor before you get too far into it...take a magnet and put it on the freeze plugs of both engines. If it sticks you have steel freeze plugs and automotive engines...they won't last long. I picked up a pair of very strong 355 Small Block Vortecs in Pompano Beach this week for $4500 for the pair...new blocks with roller cams and new Vortec heads. Seems that a customer started a $10,000 engine project with a High Po Marine shop here, made a $3500 deposit and never came back. I got lucky...going in my 255 over the next few weeks.
I am telling you this so you will know that there are deals to be had. Before you spend $1500 ea on SEI's, know that good Alphas can be had for $500...all over the country. Make sure you have good gimbals and don't have rotten transom assembly's. You won't know until you pull the drives and replace the U- Joint Bellows...do this...it will save you anguish down the road.
I just picked up a pair of 292 SR-1 drop out bolsters for my 255 and will have a pair of good Formula swivel buckets on bases for sale if you are interested.
Feel free to ask any questions you may have. Between me and others on the board...we probably have the answers.
A 272LS with strong Small Blocks running 23" Mirage + props will make 70+ MPH with a light load and will handle more rough water than you ever will.
Welcome and have fun...that's what it's all about.
Welcome...and you got a good on. I had one 25 years ago and almost bought another one on E-bay earlier this week. The Formulas hold up well and have good bones. +
I am re-powering a 255 Liberator as I write this...only because I discovered tat the previous owner had slipped a pair of automotive long blocks in the boat. I didn't know it until a freeze plug rotted out on the port engine. Do yourself a favor before you get too far into it...take a magnet and put it on the freeze plugs of both engines. If it sticks you have steel freeze plugs and automotive engines...they won't last long. I picked up a pair of very strong 355 Small Block Vortecs in Pompano Beach this week for $4500 for the pair...new blocks with roller cams and new Vortec heads. Seems that a customer started a $10,000 engine project with a High Po Marine shop here, made a $3500 deposit and never came back. I got lucky...going in my 255 over the next few weeks.
I am telling you this so you will know that there are deals to be had. Before you spend $1500 ea on SEI's, know that good Alphas can be had for $500...all over the country. Make sure you have good gimbals and don't have rotten transom assembly's. You won't know until you pull the drives and replace the U- Joint Bellows...do this...it will save you anguish down the road.
I just picked up a pair of 292 SR-1 drop out bolsters for my 255 and will have a pair of good Formula swivel buckets on bases for sale if you are interested.
Feel free to ask any questions you may have. Between me and others on the board...we probably have the answers.
A 272LS with strong Small Blocks running 23" Mirage + props will make 70+ MPH with a light load and will handle more rough water than you ever will.
Welcome and have fun...that's what it's all about.
12-01-2011, 03:29 PM
#6
JettDogg, transom is very solid, nice and dry, wood looks new!
Sprink, for some reason I thought I heard the SEI's were better and were under warranty up to 400HP, but then I saw on the website they are not, only 300 HP like the Mercruiser's. Any benefit to the SEI's other then the stellar warranty and counter rotation? Just looked around and an hour away is a 1985 alpha from a 350 ski boat for $800 OBO includes the drive, cyclinders and transom assembly. didn't ask about the trim cyclinder, might have to look into that as a possibility. The 500 price you mentioned, I would guess that would be a good price for just the outdrive, no cylinders or transom assembly?
Yeah, you can shoot me a price and pics on the seats if you would to befunovo at yahoo but remember I am trying a budget build! I asked about a used swim platform, but at $350 + shipping it was about 8% of the cost of the boat. Not saying it isn't priced fair, but I want to do this lower cost until I decide that this boating thing will fit into our family life with camping.
Heck, I remember seeing an older set of used bolsters that needed to be recovered sell for around $500!
I still drool over the 1994 Scarab 38 thunder up in Grand Rapids with 98 hours on it for $45k. I am still tempted to buy that, but just don't want to spend that cash now or get a boat that big. Just bought a 3/4 ton burb and new camper this spring, so wife would kill me!
I will ask plenty of questions, I have read many many threads on OSO and the formula section over the past fall and summer, many postings by you.
Thank you, Brian
Sprink, for some reason I thought I heard the SEI's were better and were under warranty up to 400HP, but then I saw on the website they are not, only 300 HP like the Mercruiser's. Any benefit to the SEI's other then the stellar warranty and counter rotation? Just looked around and an hour away is a 1985 alpha from a 350 ski boat for $800 OBO includes the drive, cyclinders and transom assembly. didn't ask about the trim cyclinder, might have to look into that as a possibility. The 500 price you mentioned, I would guess that would be a good price for just the outdrive, no cylinders or transom assembly?
Yeah, you can shoot me a price and pics on the seats if you would to befunovo at yahoo but remember I am trying a budget build! I asked about a used swim platform, but at $350 + shipping it was about 8% of the cost of the boat. Not saying it isn't priced fair, but I want to do this lower cost until I decide that this boating thing will fit into our family life with camping.
Heck, I remember seeing an older set of used bolsters that needed to be recovered sell for around $500!
I still drool over the 1994 Scarab 38 thunder up in Grand Rapids with 98 hours on it for $45k. I am still tempted to buy that, but just don't want to spend that cash now or get a boat that big. Just bought a 3/4 ton burb and new camper this spring, so wife would kill me!
I will ask plenty of questions, I have read many many threads on OSO and the formula section over the past fall and summer, many postings by you.
Thank you, Brian
12-01-2011, 06:11 PM
#8
Needed parts
I figure I will make a list of things that need serios repair or replaced here, then I can keep it updated. Right now it is speculation until I do the compression check next week.
Swim platform - I have a teak one that is well worn with a few cracked boards. Not sure I want to repair, replace or build something new.
Seats are also an issue. The brackets are fine and the slides work well, but the wood in them is going so the screws are pulling out. The vinyl is also dried out on top. So I need to replace or rebuild mine
Drives - mine are pitted and well used but are said to work. Still, for the right price I would take newer ones and use these as spares if neded.
Props - need props. Thinking 23p laser II or mirage (standard). Also need a Solas 4blade aluminum 21p for local lakes and tubing.
Bimini top. Yes I want a bimini, back off!
Swim platform - I have a teak one that is well worn with a few cracked boards. Not sure I want to repair, replace or build something new.
Seats are also an issue. The brackets are fine and the slides work well, but the wood in them is going so the screws are pulling out. The vinyl is also dried out on top. So I need to replace or rebuild mine
Drives - mine are pitted and well used but are said to work. Still, for the right price I would take newer ones and use these as spares if neded.
Props - need props. Thinking 23p laser II or mirage (standard). Also need a Solas 4blade aluminum 21p for local lakes and tubing.
Bimini top. Yes I want a bimini, back off!
12-01-2011, 07:56 PM
#10
Registered
Brian,
First of all ...remember that you are not in a race to get this thing finished...take your time...it will come together.
If you don't need trim cylinders...don't buy them. If your drives go up and down all the way and stay up...you are ok. Unless you have a buyer for the other stuff, don't buy it just to have it. I would rather have a strong Alpha for $500 (drive only) than to spend 3 x that much on a 25 year old boat.
As a suggestion...use this priority list:
1. Reliable power and propulsion...speed and performance are secondary at this time. With even marginal 260's that are running on all 16 cylinders (twin) you will move that old girl around at 50 + mph and can tube til your hearts content.
2. Make it safe. Make sure you have no fuel, oil or water leaks. Insure that all required lights work properly. Carr all required USCG equipment and last but not least...get a decent set of dock lines and a good anchor, rode and line.
3. Aesthetics. Clean it up...get rid of all of the rotten wood. Make sure the gauges work. Replace the bad wood and reupholster the crappiest vinyl first working your way around.
4. You don't need 23" props with standard power...get a pair of 21" for most stuff and if you want to nothing some days but yank skiers out of the hole get a pair of 19".
Apply the safety tasks to the trailer as well. You don't want to be a hazard to yourself or anyone else.
If you want to have it ready to go by Memorial Day...set some goals and a budget for each goal.
If it gives you any comfort...I bought my boat and trailer a year ago for $3500. As of today including spending $4500 this week for the new power...I have about $10K in it. After I am through with the power and electronics I will have about $12K in mine.
It will run 7~10 years of 12 month boating here in South Florida with reasonable care. This will be a sea worthy boat that I won't hesitate to take to Freeport Lucaya in the Bahamas across 60 miles of open ocean. My original budget for this boat's restoration was $15K~$20K over a two year period. Once I am there it will be paid for and I will own it...it will not own me.
Don't push it and you will enjoy it.
First of all ...remember that you are not in a race to get this thing finished...take your time...it will come together.
If you don't need trim cylinders...don't buy them. If your drives go up and down all the way and stay up...you are ok. Unless you have a buyer for the other stuff, don't buy it just to have it. I would rather have a strong Alpha for $500 (drive only) than to spend 3 x that much on a 25 year old boat.
As a suggestion...use this priority list:
1. Reliable power and propulsion...speed and performance are secondary at this time. With even marginal 260's that are running on all 16 cylinders (twin) you will move that old girl around at 50 + mph and can tube til your hearts content.
2. Make it safe. Make sure you have no fuel, oil or water leaks. Insure that all required lights work properly. Carr all required USCG equipment and last but not least...get a decent set of dock lines and a good anchor, rode and line.
3. Aesthetics. Clean it up...get rid of all of the rotten wood. Make sure the gauges work. Replace the bad wood and reupholster the crappiest vinyl first working your way around.
4. You don't need 23" props with standard power...get a pair of 21" for most stuff and if you want to nothing some days but yank skiers out of the hole get a pair of 19".
Apply the safety tasks to the trailer as well. You don't want to be a hazard to yourself or anyone else.
If you want to have it ready to go by Memorial Day...set some goals and a budget for each goal.
If it gives you any comfort...I bought my boat and trailer a year ago for $3500. As of today including spending $4500 this week for the new power...I have about $10K in it. After I am through with the power and electronics I will have about $12K in mine.
It will run 7~10 years of 12 month boating here in South Florida with reasonable care. This will be a sea worthy boat that I won't hesitate to take to Freeport Lucaya in the Bahamas across 60 miles of open ocean. My original budget for this boat's restoration was $15K~$20K over a two year period. Once I am there it will be paid for and I will own it...it will not own me.
Don't push it and you will enjoy it.
Last edited by sprink58; 12-01-2011 at 07:59 PM.
