The New H2X "Comments "
02-16-2009, 05:03 PM
#41
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Wow, I just went over to the Checkmate forums on their website. A lot of angry people over there. Its funny, lots of anygry people at TeamBaja too...
Here is my question. I have had my experiences with Bajas, as far back as the 223 Baja Bandits. Therefore, I am familiar with the build quality. I have a personal guage to weed through the bs of owners claiming they are the best, to people who own competing brands that say they are Bayliners. I feel the truth is somewhere in the middle, but they are entry level go fast boats.
I am asking for honest, no biased input here. Where does Checkmate lie on the quality map. Seriously, I am curious. I look at their boats, and see dated designs, a similiar build quality, and a lot of wood. I read many posts on the Checkmate forum claiming the boats are some of the best built in the industry. I would question why their resale is so low compared to say, a Formula, and why they are so rare in big water areas.
To any Checkmate owners reading this, I am not trying to belittle your boat. I just want to get an accurate idea of where Checkmates lie on the boating class system.
To me, Baja and Checkmate were always one in the same in terms of quality, market, etc. Am I wrong?
Here is my question. I have had my experiences with Bajas, as far back as the 223 Baja Bandits. Therefore, I am familiar with the build quality. I have a personal guage to weed through the bs of owners claiming they are the best, to people who own competing brands that say they are Bayliners. I feel the truth is somewhere in the middle, but they are entry level go fast boats.
I am asking for honest, no biased input here. Where does Checkmate lie on the quality map. Seriously, I am curious. I look at their boats, and see dated designs, a similiar build quality, and a lot of wood. I read many posts on the Checkmate forum claiming the boats are some of the best built in the industry. I would question why their resale is so low compared to say, a Formula, and why they are so rare in big water areas.
To any Checkmate owners reading this, I am not trying to belittle your boat. I just want to get an accurate idea of where Checkmates lie on the boating class system.
To me, Baja and Checkmate were always one in the same in terms of quality, market, etc. Am I wrong?
Last edited by Tristar Racing; 02-16-2009 at 05:09 PM.
02-16-2009, 06:22 PM
#42
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You want likes and dislikes? I like that the boat is still being built. I dislike the fact its being built across town, because i don't have a job building it under its old name any more! 
Tristar, where exactly does Formula or Donzi exceed Baja or Checkmate in build quality? Just curious your opinion on this.
Tristar, where exactly does Formula or Donzi exceed Baja or Checkmate in build quality? Just curious your opinion on this.
Last edited by PURPLE HORNET; 02-16-2009 at 07:11 PM.
02-16-2009, 07:09 PM
#43
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Tristar Racing
I went and compared apples to apples on a Checkmate against a Formula from years 96-2001 25-30 foot single engine because that's mostly what Checkmate built. But twins where offered. I found the resale was no better on a Formula than a Checkmate single engine 25-30 foot. I used The Checkmate Convincor being that is the closest to a Formula. Checkmate was a family owned and operated business till Doug Smith took over. Bill Combs mostly stuck with lake boats because thats where the demand was for him and most profitable. Yes I agree some of the interior and graphics where getting a bit dated but all graphics where still in the gel and multibale colors were offerered. I will compare my gel finish to any Formula in my Class you Choose. Its rare to ever see stress cracks in a Checkmate unless the owner just totally abused it or neglected it. Checkmate was never a mass produced boat and their is not a whole lot of them around. The guy must have done something rite to be in business since the sixties that did not come from building a average boat.
Just my take and 02
HERE IS SOME HISTORY ON CHECKMATE.
Checkmate is about speed. Speed is in our DNA. It’s been this way ever since the day in 1963 when Bill Combs set out to build the finest, fastest, best performing racing boat at his factory in Bucyrus, Ohio. Bill was obsessed with racing. He began by modifying boats and he thought it made sense to build his own racing outboard – and Checkmate was born. With his high performing outboards, and his sons, Bill hit the racing circuit in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Almost overnight, Checkmate and racing became synonymous. Throughout the ensuing decades, Checkmate continued to dominate the racing circuits.
As the racing line developed, Checkmate entered a new category -- the performance boating market. Soon, Checkmate was renowned for being one of the premium performance boat manufacturers in the country. True to its roots, Checkmate continues to build quality boats using time-tested methods and styling.
Checkmate’s legendary reputation for speed and it’s incredible styling and finish appealed most to Doug Smith, former co-founder and president of BAJA marine. Smith dusted off the cobwebs and rekindled the fires of his love for speed. In 2007, Doug Smith grabbed the opportunity to re-join the performance boating industry. Leveraging Checkmate's top notch quality and outstanding performance record, Doug inaugurated a new era in Checkmate’s history. True to his word, Doug Smith will continue to uphold the classic styling, high standards and commitment to quality that’s always been part of the racing icon called Checkmate.
HERE IS A NEW CHECKMATE 2400 IT DOES NOT LOOK OUT DATED TO ME
I went and compared apples to apples on a Checkmate against a Formula from years 96-2001 25-30 foot single engine because that's mostly what Checkmate built. But twins where offered. I found the resale was no better on a Formula than a Checkmate single engine 25-30 foot. I used The Checkmate Convincor being that is the closest to a Formula. Checkmate was a family owned and operated business till Doug Smith took over. Bill Combs mostly stuck with lake boats because thats where the demand was for him and most profitable. Yes I agree some of the interior and graphics where getting a bit dated but all graphics where still in the gel and multibale colors were offerered. I will compare my gel finish to any Formula in my Class you Choose. Its rare to ever see stress cracks in a Checkmate unless the owner just totally abused it or neglected it. Checkmate was never a mass produced boat and their is not a whole lot of them around. The guy must have done something rite to be in business since the sixties that did not come from building a average boat.
Just my take and 02
HERE IS SOME HISTORY ON CHECKMATE.
Checkmate is about speed. Speed is in our DNA. It’s been this way ever since the day in 1963 when Bill Combs set out to build the finest, fastest, best performing racing boat at his factory in Bucyrus, Ohio. Bill was obsessed with racing. He began by modifying boats and he thought it made sense to build his own racing outboard – and Checkmate was born. With his high performing outboards, and his sons, Bill hit the racing circuit in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Almost overnight, Checkmate and racing became synonymous. Throughout the ensuing decades, Checkmate continued to dominate the racing circuits.
As the racing line developed, Checkmate entered a new category -- the performance boating market. Soon, Checkmate was renowned for being one of the premium performance boat manufacturers in the country. True to its roots, Checkmate continues to build quality boats using time-tested methods and styling.
Checkmate’s legendary reputation for speed and it’s incredible styling and finish appealed most to Doug Smith, former co-founder and president of BAJA marine. Smith dusted off the cobwebs and rekindled the fires of his love for speed. In 2007, Doug Smith grabbed the opportunity to re-join the performance boating industry. Leveraging Checkmate's top notch quality and outstanding performance record, Doug inaugurated a new era in Checkmate’s history. True to his word, Doug Smith will continue to uphold the classic styling, high standards and commitment to quality that’s always been part of the racing icon called Checkmate.
HERE IS A NEW CHECKMATE 2400 IT DOES NOT LOOK OUT DATED TO ME
Last edited by PURPLE HORNET; 02-16-2009 at 07:24 PM.
02-16-2009, 07:37 PM
#44
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Tristar Racing
I went and compared apples to apples on a Checkmate against a Formula from years 96-2001 25-30 foot single engine because that's mostly what Checkmate built. But twins where offered. I found the resale was no better on a Formula than a Checkmate single engine 25-30 foot. I used The Checkmate Convincor being that is the closest to a Formula. Checkmate was a family owned and operated business till Doug Smith took over. Bill Combs mostly stuck with lake boats because thats where the demand was for him and most profitable. Yes I agree some of the interior and graphics where getting a bit dated but all graphics where still in the gel and multibale colors were offerered. I will compare my gel finish to any Formula in my Class you Choose. Its rare to ever see stress cracks in a Checkmate unless the owner just totally abused it or neglected it. Checkmate was never a mass produced boat and their is not a whole lot of them around. The guy must have done something rite to be in business since the sixties that did not come from building a average boat.
Just my take and 02
HERE IS SOME HISTORY ON CHECKMATE.
Checkmate is about speed. Speed is in our DNA. It’s been this way ever since the day in 1963 when Bill Combs set out to build the finest, fastest, best performing racing boat at his factory in Bucyrus, Ohio. Bill was obsessed with racing. He began by modifying boats and he thought it made sense to build his own racing outboard – and Checkmate was born. With his high performing outboards, and his sons, Bill hit the racing circuit in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Almost overnight, Checkmate and racing became synonymous. Throughout the ensuing decades, Checkmate continued to dominate the racing circuits.
As the racing line developed, Checkmate entered a new category -- the performance boating market. Soon, Checkmate was renowned for being one of the premium performance boat manufacturers in the country. True to its roots, Checkmate continues to build quality boats using time-tested methods and styling.
Checkmate’s legendary reputation for speed and it’s incredible styling and finish appealed most to Doug Smith, former co-founder and president of BAJA marine. Smith dusted off the cobwebs and rekindled the fires of his love for speed. In 2007, Doug Smith grabbed the opportunity to re-join the performance boating industry. Leveraging Checkmate's top notch quality and outstanding performance record, Doug inaugurated a new era in Checkmate’s history. True to his word, Doug Smith will continue to uphold the classic styling, high standards and commitment to quality that’s always been part of the racing icon called Checkmate.
HERE IS A NEW CHECKMATE 2400 IT DOES NOT LOOK OUT DATED TO ME
I went and compared apples to apples on a Checkmate against a Formula from years 96-2001 25-30 foot single engine because that's mostly what Checkmate built. But twins where offered. I found the resale was no better on a Formula than a Checkmate single engine 25-30 foot. I used The Checkmate Convincor being that is the closest to a Formula. Checkmate was a family owned and operated business till Doug Smith took over. Bill Combs mostly stuck with lake boats because thats where the demand was for him and most profitable. Yes I agree some of the interior and graphics where getting a bit dated but all graphics where still in the gel and multibale colors were offerered. I will compare my gel finish to any Formula in my Class you Choose. Its rare to ever see stress cracks in a Checkmate unless the owner just totally abused it or neglected it. Checkmate was never a mass produced boat and their is not a whole lot of them around. The guy must have done something rite to be in business since the sixties that did not come from building a average boat.
Just my take and 02
HERE IS SOME HISTORY ON CHECKMATE.
Checkmate is about speed. Speed is in our DNA. It’s been this way ever since the day in 1963 when Bill Combs set out to build the finest, fastest, best performing racing boat at his factory in Bucyrus, Ohio. Bill was obsessed with racing. He began by modifying boats and he thought it made sense to build his own racing outboard – and Checkmate was born. With his high performing outboards, and his sons, Bill hit the racing circuit in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Almost overnight, Checkmate and racing became synonymous. Throughout the ensuing decades, Checkmate continued to dominate the racing circuits.
As the racing line developed, Checkmate entered a new category -- the performance boating market. Soon, Checkmate was renowned for being one of the premium performance boat manufacturers in the country. True to its roots, Checkmate continues to build quality boats using time-tested methods and styling.
Checkmate’s legendary reputation for speed and it’s incredible styling and finish appealed most to Doug Smith, former co-founder and president of BAJA marine. Smith dusted off the cobwebs and rekindled the fires of his love for speed. In 2007, Doug Smith grabbed the opportunity to re-join the performance boating industry. Leveraging Checkmate's top notch quality and outstanding performance record, Doug inaugurated a new era in Checkmate’s history. True to his word, Doug Smith will continue to uphold the classic styling, high standards and commitment to quality that’s always been part of the racing icon called Checkmate.
HERE IS A NEW CHECKMATE 2400 IT DOES NOT LOOK OUT DATED TO ME
Some history? Thats just the marketing blurb from Checkmates site...
Can you define resale was "no better?" Because I can find older examples of SR-271 Formulas that still cost more than newer 280ZT Checkmates, even on this site.
Honestly, looking at pictures if you have never been in both boats, do you really feel Checkmates are close to the build quality of the Fastec line? I dont mean just gelcoat finish, I mean everything. Cockpit layout, materials, fit and finish in the cabin, rigging, wire runs, amount of wood used in construction, etc.
If you feel that they are, thats fine. I might not agree though.
I agree Checkmate must be doing something right, as they have weathered many storms. I just think the owners on some of these sites might be over-zealous in their accolades for the brand.
Any others with opinions? Possibly someone that has owned Bajas and Checkmates? I am beginning to see these two companies have owner groups that almost mimic the Ford vs Chevy battle, perhaps looking for someone that has owned both is out of the question...
Last edited by Tristar Racing; 02-16-2009 at 07:44 PM.
02-16-2009, 07:48 PM
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I was just going by boat trader taking some formula's with the same options of a Checkmate. Checkmate did not make a lot of loaded down boats.
What do you want me to tell you that a Baja sucks and a Checkmate is better. Well I am not going too
What do you want me to tell you that a Baja sucks and a Checkmate is better. Well I am not going too
02-16-2009, 08:00 PM
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TRISTAR
I went back and read a lot of your post and I dont even think you own a boat. You just go around and bust balls about boats
09-17-2008, 09:05 PM #12
Tristar Racing
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I do my boating when I can with friends or on my parents boat. I almost swore off boating a few years back after some bad experiences, but news of a new SR Pachanga brought me right back into wanting my own floating money pit.
Hopefully next year Ill have my own boat to sink funds into, which will most likely be docked at Marina Shores...
I went back and read a lot of your post and I dont even think you own a boat. You just go around and bust balls about boats
09-17-2008, 09:05 PM #12
Tristar Racing
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I do my boating when I can with friends or on my parents boat. I almost swore off boating a few years back after some bad experiences, but news of a new SR Pachanga brought me right back into wanting my own floating money pit.
Hopefully next year Ill have my own boat to sink funds into, which will most likely be docked at Marina Shores...
02-16-2009, 08:09 PM
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TRISTAR
I went back and read a lot of your post and I dont even think you own a boat. You just go around and bust balls about boats
09-17-2008, 09:05 PM #12
Tristar Racing
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I do my boating when I can with friends or on my parents boat. I almost swore off boating a few years back after some bad experiences, but news of a new SR Pachanga brought me right back into wanting my own floating money pit.
Hopefully next year Ill have my own boat to sink funds into, which will most likely be docked at Marina Shores...
I went back and read a lot of your post and I dont even think you own a boat. You just go around and bust balls about boats
09-17-2008, 09:05 PM #12
Tristar Racing
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I do my boating when I can with friends or on my parents boat. I almost swore off boating a few years back after some bad experiences, but news of a new SR Pachanga brought me right back into wanting my own floating money pit.
Hopefully next year Ill have my own boat to sink funds into, which will most likely be docked at Marina Shores...
Busting balls? I clearly stated I didnt want to offend anyone, I was just trying to learn more about a brand I thought was just an entry level performance boat. (Checkmate) I thought this was a more appropriate route than just assuming.
It seems the only thing I am learning is that people that own them cannot handle justifying their ideas of grandeur.
If your this touchy on the internet you must be a ball of sunshine in real life...
Last edited by Tristar Racing; 02-16-2009 at 08:23 PM.
02-16-2009, 08:46 PM
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Tri-Star, since you dont have have a boat, I found a great place to invest your money. $100 will go a long way!
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/asp/Summary...&selected=FPWB
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/asp/Summary...&selected=FPWB
Last edited by TEAMBAJA; 02-16-2009 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Bad Link
02-16-2009, 08:55 PM
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Best thing for you to do my friend is just go look at some Checkmates ,Baja's, and formulas and do your own homework. Yes I can vouch for a Checkmate on wiring, wood and materials are quality. Yes Checkmate uses a lot of wood but when its prepped and treated right with glass theirs no problem with it. Most of the problems with boats are the sorry owners with neglect if you want to know the truth. This I say being left in the water, leaving the cover off in the rain, not treating the upholstery or wake jumping the boat like it is a dirt bike. And my biggest beef people that don't use bumpers and skin their boat all up on the dock. And then wonder why their resale is so low.
02-16-2009, 09:03 PM
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Tri-Star, since you dont have have a boat, I found a great place to invest your money. $100 will go a long way!
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/asp/Summary...&selected=FPWB
http://quotes.nasdaq.com/asp/Summary...&selected=FPWB
Best thing for you to do my friend is just go look at some Checkmates ,Baja's, and formulas and do your own homework. Yes I can vouch for a Checkmate on wiring, wood and materials are quality. Yes Checkmate uses a lot of wood but when its prepped and treated right with glass theirs no problem with it. Most of the problems with boats are the sorry owners with neglect if you want to know the truth. This I say being left in the water, leaving the cover off in the rain, not treating the upholstery or wake jumping the boat like it is a dirt bike. And my biggest beef people that don't use bumpers and skin their boat all up on the dock. And then wonder why their resale is so low.
Thats what started my confusion and my hope to find some truth or at least common ground in this matter. I am just trying to understand how a Checkmate owner could call a Baja a piece of crap. Well, they would be right about the 405 with the liner system...
I think perhaps its just a arguement like Ford vs. Chevy, where it might be too dramtic to understand.
Last edited by Tristar Racing; 02-16-2009 at 09:17 PM.
