Buying is hard
02-22-2009, 09:07 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buying is hard
Hello all,
I'm new to the board but not new to the world, and certainly not new to boating. I'm in the market possibly for a new boat and was looking into Cigs. I've read just about every post on here and its funny how the ones about prices and values seem to create such issue.
Thing is, as a buyer, of course I'm gonna look for the best deal. Why wouldn't I? It seems that everyone gets offended by that from buyers. Why? I'm sure when you all bought your boats from dealers or elsewhere, you didn't just say "hi, how much? Oh, its special cause you say so? Ok, then I'll pay you more than you're asking for it" Maybe some did but I doubt many of us were able to amount enough wealth to buy these things buy making uncalculated purchases throughout life right? So why is buying a boat so different? Why is it offensive to get a low offer? The market for all things sucks right now. No buyer wants to spend for something to find out the next week the market dropped even more and his new purchase is worth less does he? I see the comments of "don't waste my time" from sellers why would you list your boat for sale if you aren't interested in hearing from buyers?
I guess I just don't get what I'm missing. I'm able to buy the boat that I'm looking at but the prices range so dramatically it confuses me. Fact is, boats are non essential toys. They have a market but that market is only made up by the value of other non essential toys. And I also notice that when boats do sell it becomes a secret. I haven't really been able to find what anyone pays for their boats. Why? We post HP, Top speed, how many girls in bikinis, but never what we paid. Is it embarrassing? Do we not want to have someone tell us we paid too much? Is it an ego thing? I'm looking for a 35. There's a few on the market. I've researched each one. Made offers on them based on what I know about them. To hear the sellers talk about it, each one is the best one ever. They forget to mention things like repo, blown drives, etc. It was from research that I found those things out. Shouldn't that affect my offer? or because its a cig, it doesnt' matter?
I'm not bashing or criticising, cause I want one myself. I just am trying to figure out why there is this whole aire of negativity towards buyers. I"m a buyer and I may but a boat. but I'm not going to do it without due dilligence. Its a bummer to me cause there are really very few choices for me right now. I'd like a 38 and there are a ton out there but for me its just a little too much. So I'm left with the 3 that are out there and they are just not that great to me. They each have some issues. I'm hoping that something will come along and I'll pick it up, but I was just wondering why the negativity towards the buyer? And really wondering why I can't find out what anyone buys their boats for. Thats how a "market" is created buy knowing value. Right now in boats its hard to find a value.
OK, thought finished for now.
I'm new to the board but not new to the world, and certainly not new to boating. I'm in the market possibly for a new boat and was looking into Cigs. I've read just about every post on here and its funny how the ones about prices and values seem to create such issue.
Thing is, as a buyer, of course I'm gonna look for the best deal. Why wouldn't I? It seems that everyone gets offended by that from buyers. Why? I'm sure when you all bought your boats from dealers or elsewhere, you didn't just say "hi, how much? Oh, its special cause you say so? Ok, then I'll pay you more than you're asking for it" Maybe some did but I doubt many of us were able to amount enough wealth to buy these things buy making uncalculated purchases throughout life right? So why is buying a boat so different? Why is it offensive to get a low offer? The market for all things sucks right now. No buyer wants to spend for something to find out the next week the market dropped even more and his new purchase is worth less does he? I see the comments of "don't waste my time" from sellers why would you list your boat for sale if you aren't interested in hearing from buyers?
I guess I just don't get what I'm missing. I'm able to buy the boat that I'm looking at but the prices range so dramatically it confuses me. Fact is, boats are non essential toys. They have a market but that market is only made up by the value of other non essential toys. And I also notice that when boats do sell it becomes a secret. I haven't really been able to find what anyone pays for their boats. Why? We post HP, Top speed, how many girls in bikinis, but never what we paid. Is it embarrassing? Do we not want to have someone tell us we paid too much? Is it an ego thing? I'm looking for a 35. There's a few on the market. I've researched each one. Made offers on them based on what I know about them. To hear the sellers talk about it, each one is the best one ever. They forget to mention things like repo, blown drives, etc. It was from research that I found those things out. Shouldn't that affect my offer? or because its a cig, it doesnt' matter?
I'm not bashing or criticising, cause I want one myself. I just am trying to figure out why there is this whole aire of negativity towards buyers. I"m a buyer and I may but a boat. but I'm not going to do it without due dilligence. Its a bummer to me cause there are really very few choices for me right now. I'd like a 38 and there are a ton out there but for me its just a little too much. So I'm left with the 3 that are out there and they are just not that great to me. They each have some issues. I'm hoping that something will come along and I'll pick it up, but I was just wondering why the negativity towards the buyer? And really wondering why I can't find out what anyone buys their boats for. Thats how a "market" is created buy knowing value. Right now in boats its hard to find a value.
OK, thought finished for now.
02-22-2009, 09:22 PM
#2
Registered
VIP MemberJoin Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello and welcome. I just bought a Cafe and had quite the opposite experience - several folks offered to speak with me off line and had very concrete examples of recent purchase prices and the basis for those prices. Everybody makes their own deal but it is true that very few post financial information for everyone to see. This makes sense as this seems to be a pretty closed community and I know I don't want some buyer waving a printout showing my purchase price at me when it's time to finally negotiate a sale at some point in the future. The other extreme does exist - there is a current post in general boating where some guy went so far as to post his purchase price, the term and rate for his loan, and how much he put down. TMI for a public record if you ask me.
Although others are probably much more qualified to speak with you about the amount of research necessary and proper valuation for certain qualities and equipment, I would be happy to share my experiences if you PM me with some contact information.
Regards and welcome,
David
Although others are probably much more qualified to speak with you about the amount of research necessary and proper valuation for certain qualities and equipment, I would be happy to share my experiences if you PM me with some contact information.
Regards and welcome,
David
02-22-2009, 09:55 PM
#3
Registered
Platinum MemberJoin Date: Nov 2006
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First, welcome to the site, and I hope you do join the Cigarette family. You can't make a better choice in my mind.
Well, just on this site, it looks like there's 5 Cafes, 2 35' Mistress', 1 35' Playboy, and 1 Bullet.
Prices ranging from the $40's to $100K. Some of them look very nice. In my mind, when you see more than a 100% variance in price, it tells me that the old adage of "you get what you pay for" is never more true than the boat market, especially today.
However, the asking price and the selling price ARE two different things. If I were selling and someone offered me 50% of asking, I WOULD be offended. Just like most people would be offended if they got a 50% offer when they are selling a car. Same thing. If someone would offer me 2/3's to 3/4's my asking price, that's enough to start a reasonable discussion. I think most Cig owners with items in the classifieds probably expect something in that ballpark.
Going back to my first sentence, I think most listed here would be worth (and I would offer) about 3/4's of asking, pending a clean survey and a good test ride.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, just on this site, it looks like there's 5 Cafes, 2 35' Mistress', 1 35' Playboy, and 1 Bullet.
Prices ranging from the $40's to $100K. Some of them look very nice. In my mind, when you see more than a 100% variance in price, it tells me that the old adage of "you get what you pay for" is never more true than the boat market, especially today.
However, the asking price and the selling price ARE two different things. If I were selling and someone offered me 50% of asking, I WOULD be offended. Just like most people would be offended if they got a 50% offer when they are selling a car. Same thing. If someone would offer me 2/3's to 3/4's my asking price, that's enough to start a reasonable discussion. I think most Cig owners with items in the classifieds probably expect something in that ballpark.
Going back to my first sentence, I think most listed here would be worth (and I would offer) about 3/4's of asking, pending a clean survey and a good test ride.
Just my 2 cents.
02-23-2009, 06:06 AM
#4
VIP Member
VIP Member
welcome, I think you've approached it correctly, just keep getting info and check each boat out. You know your price range, you don't know the sellers. don't be afraid to make an offer or start a conversation with whomever is selling, if it is a broker, maybe they are working a deal on one that isn't listed yet. By all means don't be like the other tools and start bashing on the internet, keep it close to your vest and I'm sure you will find sellers more receptive to working with you. I think that you will find that even if you are offering less than someone is asking, if you handle the transaction in a professional way, you will be rewarded. it is business not personal.
02-23-2009, 07:00 AM
#5
Gold Member
Gold Member
PM me or email me and i will give you objective feedback on my Cafe purchase. I have done that with several others in the last year or two. You'll have to take it for what it is worth though because the market was different two years ago.
As far as not putting the price out there for the world - I think it is two things; One, a courtesy to the seller, and secondly I think it is the exact opposite of people being egotistical - Everybody on the website has spent a good sum of money on their boat, a total luxury item, and not putting the price out there for the world to see is somewhat modest in my book.
eric.ancarrow (at) ferguson.com
As far as not putting the price out there for the world - I think it is two things; One, a courtesy to the seller, and secondly I think it is the exact opposite of people being egotistical - Everybody on the website has spent a good sum of money on their boat, a total luxury item, and not putting the price out there for the world to see is somewhat modest in my book.
eric.ancarrow (at) ferguson.com
Last edited by seafordguy; 02-23-2009 at 07:00 AM. Reason: Forgot my email
02-23-2009, 07:28 AM
#6
I think alot of people don't put a price down because there are a wide range of boats out there. Salty dogs, abused boats, dirty boats, beasutiful boats, ect. Many times people have pipe dreams about what the boat is worth. If somone is truly interested in your boat, they are going to contact you via email or phone. Ask questions, get additional info, and maybe some more pictures. Throwing numbers around really doesn't do anything. People have an idea in there head on what they want to spend. There is a boat for everyone. Money talks also.
There are also people playing games and tire kicking so see how low the seller will go. So far I have had 2 of these, I accepted the offer that they gave. They have not shown up on the doorstep. I am not worried, seems like there is still a bunch of buyers out there. Boating season is coming. Boaters want to get into a boat that is reliable, won't loose the value and looks good and can run 70+. What boats do you notice when you pull into the dock?????????
There are also people playing games and tire kicking so see how low the seller will go. So far I have had 2 of these, I accepted the offer that they gave. They have not shown up on the doorstep. I am not worried, seems like there is still a bunch of buyers out there. Boating season is coming. Boaters want to get into a boat that is reliable, won't loose the value and looks good and can run 70+. What boats do you notice when you pull into the dock?????????
Last edited by cigrocket; 02-23-2009 at 07:32 AM.
02-23-2009, 07:57 AM
#7
Even with the purchase price OUT there you are going to spend more coin reguaardless. Personally I have spent over 15k on my purchase just getting the things the way I want them. and that doesntt include the New trailer.
But you can bet it will be worth it when my eyes are watering when I be Smokin by some TIRE kickers still sittin on shore!!!
Quinlan
But you can bet it will be worth it when my eyes are watering when I be Smokin by some TIRE kickers still sittin on shore!!!
Quinlan
02-23-2009, 09:17 AM
#8
Registered
forget the 35 & move to the 38.. you will anyway, why waist time..
Im finding most owe more than they can sell for. or dont was to take the big hit..
Just my 02ct.
Im finding most owe more than they can sell for. or dont was to take the big hit..
Just my 02ct.
02-23-2009, 09:39 AM
#9
Registered
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First, welcome to the site, and I hope you do join the Cigarette family. You can't make a better choice in my mind.
Well, just on this site, it looks like there's 5 Cafes, 2 35' Mistress', 1 35' Playboy, and 1 Bullet.
Prices ranging from the $40's to $100K. Some of them look very nice. In my mind, when you see more than a 100% variance in price, it tells me that the old adage of "you get what you pay for" is never more true than the boat market, especially today.
However, the asking price and the selling price ARE two different things. If I were selling and someone offered me 50% of asking, I WOULD be offended. Just like most people would be offended if they got a 50% offer when they are selling a car. Same thing. If someone would offer me 2/3's to 3/4's my asking price, that's enough to start a reasonable discussion. I think most Cig owners with items in the classifieds probably expect something in that ballpark.
Going back to my first sentence, I think most listed here would be worth (and I would offer) about 3/4's of asking, pending a clean survey and a good test ride.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, just on this site, it looks like there's 5 Cafes, 2 35' Mistress', 1 35' Playboy, and 1 Bullet.
Prices ranging from the $40's to $100K. Some of them look very nice. In my mind, when you see more than a 100% variance in price, it tells me that the old adage of "you get what you pay for" is never more true than the boat market, especially today.
However, the asking price and the selling price ARE two different things. If I were selling and someone offered me 50% of asking, I WOULD be offended. Just like most people would be offended if they got a 50% offer when they are selling a car. Same thing. If someone would offer me 2/3's to 3/4's my asking price, that's enough to start a reasonable discussion. I think most Cig owners with items in the classifieds probably expect something in that ballpark.
Going back to my first sentence, I think most listed here would be worth (and I would offer) about 3/4's of asking, pending a clean survey and a good test ride.
Just my 2 cents.
