Wave handling: Formula 233 vs F3LS
09-25-2011, 12:48 AM
#31
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I just bought a 79 233 interceptor and I can't wait to hit the water as soon as it's ready. I didn't know anything about the boat until after I bought it, and now that I see people everywhere talking about how great the 233 is I love it even more.
I've been working on it weekends for about a month now (college student) and I'm probably 2 weekends away from her maiden voyage. I got it from the original owner and he had the motor replaced with a quicksilver crate motor in 2001. The outdrive though is a volvo 280pt which I learned wasn't around that long. If only it was an alpha....
What kind of comfortable cruising speed will I have in relatively calm water? Is 40 a bit optimistic?
I've been working on it weekends for about a month now (college student) and I'm probably 2 weekends away from her maiden voyage. I got it from the original owner and he had the motor replaced with a quicksilver crate motor in 2001. The outdrive though is a volvo 280pt which I learned wasn't around that long. If only it was an alpha....
What kind of comfortable cruising speed will I have in relatively calm water? Is 40 a bit optimistic?
I'm a big fan of Volvo Penta engines and stern drives. Parts are still floating around for them, but they won't be as plentiful as Merc parts, for sure.
I don't think a cruise speed of 40 is out of the question with that combination.
The 233 is a very special boat, indeed. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by its performance in a wide variety of conditions.
09-25-2011, 01:14 AM
#32
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Howard 24 V-drive Cruiser?
Way to go John -- that 255 must chop em up and spit em out! The F3 has been a bit of a disappointment in that it hits oncoming waves (I'm guessing 4 footers) pretty hard (thud) -- not what I expected from a 24 degree Formula. It does pretty well going with the waves. I'm sure it's better than 90% of the 21 footers out there, but it's not going to cut the mustard, since pretty much all of our boating is on Lake MI and 3+ footers are the norm, and I'm not excited about going out by myself. The waves here are much tighter than on the ocean, so when you come off of one wave, you're hitting the next wave right in the middle or at the top, as opposed to going into a trough. An old friend has a 24ft Spectra v-drive daycruiser that, to my memory, rode more comfortably on the big lake -- I never felt that thud/crunch going into the waves. Those Spectras were built to handle the Pacific off the CA coast, and they pretty much a custom boat company. Being a daycruiser they had less freeboard than a typical 24 foot boat (lots less than the 255), which is typical of the CA styling at that time. Maybe a 255 with a twin turbo/intercooled/502/BW/TRS would be the hot ticket (I prefer single engine).
Link to ad; http://www.performanceboats.com/boat...e-cruiser.html
Last edited by larslindroth; 09-25-2011 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Missing photo.
09-25-2011, 01:50 AM
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well I took my 233 interceptor out for her maiden voyage.....and the steering cable broke! never made it out of the no wake zone so I still am left just dreaming about how it will perform. I can't believe how much I love this boat and I haven't even got it on plane yet.
09-25-2011, 10:32 PM
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I noticed the same thing when looking at an '87 272 many years back. The hull sides did seem to have a bit more "bounce" to them than I expected when I gave it a sharp rap... Interesting.
The 255 most definitely has more going for it in the design department. Its unusual amount of freeboard makes it very unique among boats its size. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Four Winns' 261 Liberator when attempting to compare another boat with so much freeboard. I often wondered if the 255 Liberator was the inspiration.
JP, after your and Sprink's comments/observations, I hope 272 owners don't get the impression that their boats are cheaply constructed! Sprink advised that his 255 is about the same length as a 272 he pulled next to, and certainly the 255 is taller, yet the 272 is heavier (according to Formula brochures). Could it be that the 272 uses different materials or construction techniques? It probably does have a few more accessories too. As for the similarity in 255 freeboard to the Four Winns Liberator, I too thought about this before. The 241 and 261 FW both have substantial rear freeboards, and the bottoms seem similar also. According to FW specs, the 261 Libby has 35" of freeboard. If this is measured in the same way that Sprink measured his 255, the Lib has 5.5" less than the Formula, which doesn't surprise me.
Hey Lars, cool old v-drive! Thanks for sharing info about the Spectra and Howard daycruisers. My friend is in northern MI and has had that boat for at least 10 years. I'm not surprised to hear that the Spectra hull is 3900lbs. I recall walking on that deck and it felt like concrete. Fully outfitted it must weigh at least 5500 if not more. That's stout for a single engine 24 footer. He's got the original Fotografix custom steel trailer (must weigh a bunch too). I'm thinking that in 4-5 footers on the Great Lakes (closely bunched waves) the Spectra is going to give considerable "face spray" because of its limited freeboard in front. On smaller waves I think it will cut right through them, unlike 95% of boats its size that will pound. That Spectra will probably stuff and sink before it pounds!
The 255 most definitely has more going for it in the design department. Its unusual amount of freeboard makes it very unique among boats its size. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Four Winns' 261 Liberator when attempting to compare another boat with so much freeboard. I often wondered if the 255 Liberator was the inspiration.
JP, after your and Sprink's comments/observations, I hope 272 owners don't get the impression that their boats are cheaply constructed! Sprink advised that his 255 is about the same length as a 272 he pulled next to, and certainly the 255 is taller, yet the 272 is heavier (according to Formula brochures). Could it be that the 272 uses different materials or construction techniques? It probably does have a few more accessories too. As for the similarity in 255 freeboard to the Four Winns Liberator, I too thought about this before. The 241 and 261 FW both have substantial rear freeboards, and the bottoms seem similar also. According to FW specs, the 261 Libby has 35" of freeboard. If this is measured in the same way that Sprink measured his 255, the Lib has 5.5" less than the Formula, which doesn't surprise me.
Hey Lars, cool old v-drive! Thanks for sharing info about the Spectra and Howard daycruisers. My friend is in northern MI and has had that boat for at least 10 years. I'm not surprised to hear that the Spectra hull is 3900lbs. I recall walking on that deck and it felt like concrete. Fully outfitted it must weigh at least 5500 if not more. That's stout for a single engine 24 footer. He's got the original Fotografix custom steel trailer (must weigh a bunch too). I'm thinking that in 4-5 footers on the Great Lakes (closely bunched waves) the Spectra is going to give considerable "face spray" because of its limited freeboard in front. On smaller waves I think it will cut right through them, unlike 95% of boats its size that will pound. That Spectra will probably stuff and sink before it pounds!
09-25-2011, 10:52 PM
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I just checked the Four Winns site and discovered that the first Liberator was a 204 and was introduced in 1983. Guess what the final model year was for the Formula 255 Liberator? Sprink knows this one -- 1982. It just may be that there is a correlation between the Formula and Four Winns Liberator namesake. I have a old friend that still works at FW, so maybe I'll ask him if he knows anything. It hardly seems believable that Formula stops producing the Liberator after 1982 and the next year Four Winns comes out with their Liberator, and the boat designs appear to have quite a few similarities.
In 1990 the FW Liberator 261 became downright portly at 6180lbs with the twin small block OMC engines (Fords I think). That's 500 more than the 255. The 261 was really loaded with cabin accessories which must have added at least 100 if not more.
Just out of curiousity I'm going to do a new post on this subject (FW & Formula Liberator) to see who knows what.
In 1990 the FW Liberator 261 became downright portly at 6180lbs with the twin small block OMC engines (Fords I think). That's 500 more than the 255. The 261 was really loaded with cabin accessories which must have added at least 100 if not more.
Just out of curiousity I'm going to do a new post on this subject (FW & Formula Liberator) to see who knows what.
Last edited by Sideskraft; 09-25-2011 at 11:26 PM.
09-26-2011, 01:30 PM
#36
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Sprink advised that his 255 is about the same length as a 272 he pulled next to, and certainly the 255 is taller, yet the 272 is heavier (according to Formula brochures). Could it be that the 272 uses different materials or construction techniques?
JP, after your and Sprink's comments/observations, I hope 272 owners don't get the impression that their boats are cheaply constructed!
In all seriousness, though, after having owned two vintage Formulas and crawling around several others over the years, I'm of the opinion that Thunderbird could pretty much do no wrong during the 1970's and 80's production years as far as hull integrity is concerned.
They were using tried-and-true manufacturing processes back then, and the products still speak for themselves today.
I've never seen a 272 with severe stress cracking or rot, even if left neglected for years. They can usually always be brought back to life, and that is the ultimate testament to their build quality.
These boats were frequently securing the coveted "Powerboat of the Year" award from Powerboat magazine during the 80's, as well.
A 272 with warmed over 383s and Alphas is a 70+ MPH rig if you're gentle while planing. I'd own one in a cold second for the right price.
It probably does have a few more accessories too. As for the similarity in 255 freeboard to the Four Winns Liberator, I too thought about this before. The 241 and 261 FW both have substantial rear freeboards, and the bottoms seem similar also. According to FW specs, the 261 Libby has 35" of freeboard. If this is measured in the same way that Sprink measured his 255, the Lib has 5.5" less than the Formula, which doesn't surprise me.
This has to be more than just mere coincidence. The two boats are just so similar.
There were quite a few boat companies that tried to cash in on the performance craze of the 80's.
Cobalt licensed some designs from Carerra, and Chris Craft did the same with Excalibur.
Like the others, Four Winns had mostly limited themselves to runabouts and small day cruisers up to that point.
Lots of interesting derivatives were popping up back then.
09-26-2011, 01:34 PM
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Sprink, I wouldn't discount your own knowledge of these old formula's!!! You seem to have one cool story after another. If I can find the perfect project and my warehouse space comes together, I'm looking for a 233 or a 255 this winter. Otherwise I'll be looking for the same in the spring but less of a project
09-26-2011, 02:00 PM
#38
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"I'd own one in a cold second for the right price."
I just happen to be negotiating one as I write this w/hot .030 over 350 Mags.
A 255 as compared to a 272 is only 150 lbs lighter. Crawling all over both boats you are hard pressed to find the difference. My perception is that the cockpit of the 255 is smaller than the 272...but the cabin of the 255 is larger than the 272. I believe there is more structure to a 255 than a 272...possibly due to the technology of the resin and lay-up in the later ('84~'86) model 272's.
Interesting observation...some late '86 272 SR-1's have curved windshields as do the '87 and later boats, while others have the angled windshield/side glass.
I don't know why...any thoughts?
I just happen to be negotiating one as I write this w/hot .030 over 350 Mags.
A 255 as compared to a 272 is only 150 lbs lighter. Crawling all over both boats you are hard pressed to find the difference. My perception is that the cockpit of the 255 is smaller than the 272...but the cabin of the 255 is larger than the 272. I believe there is more structure to a 255 than a 272...possibly due to the technology of the resin and lay-up in the later ('84~'86) model 272's.
Interesting observation...some late '86 272 SR-1's have curved windshields as do the '87 and later boats, while others have the angled windshield/side glass.
I don't know why...any thoughts?
Last edited by sprink58; 09-26-2011 at 02:08 PM.
09-26-2011, 02:12 PM
#39
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Another boat that is comparable to the 255 Formula Liberator is the 26' Cobalt. Interesting that '85~'86 is when Dick Wynn, Arronow's original partner at Formula moved to Kansas and took over as Chief Designer at Cobalt.
09-26-2011, 04:51 PM
#40
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These old 'birds are getting to be awfully affordable.
A 255 as compared to a 272 is only 150 lbs lighter. Crawling all over both boats you are hard pressed to find the difference. My perception is that the cockpit of the 255 is smaller than the 272...but the cabin of the 255 is larger than the 272. I believe there is more structure to a 255 than a 272...possibly due to the technology of the resin and lay-up in the later ('84~'86) model 272's.
