DIY - Duramax Marinisation
05-11-2017, 08:32 AM
#151
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Guess who else is working on new Duramax pan designs and oil-air separation techniques without requiring a dry sump? However he's playing with brand new LP5 models.. 
http://banksinsider.news/2017/03/another-dyno-day/
http://banksinsider.news/2017/03/another-dyno-day/
05-21-2017, 05:34 PM
#152
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Awesome thread Kid
I've been working on a dmax boat project off and on now for about 3 years have some questions I haven't found answers for. I have some water cooled manifolds and up pipes mounted but have no idea how to plumb them. They are rather thin stainless with 3/8 pipe fittings and I would like to cool them with engine coolant. Where would I pull the coolant from and will 3/8 pipe flow enough to cool them without boiling. It's a junkyard lmm and I would like to see 400hp.
I've been working on a dmax boat project off and on now for about 3 years have some questions I haven't found answers for. I have some water cooled manifolds and up pipes mounted but have no idea how to plumb them. They are rather thin stainless with 3/8 pipe fittings and I would like to cool them with engine coolant. Where would I pull the coolant from and will 3/8 pipe flow enough to cool them without boiling. It's a junkyard lmm and I would like to see 400hp.
05-22-2017, 11:56 AM
#153
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Welcome to the forum adb1.
Think I know which manifolds you have with the3/8 NPT fittings. While I prefer 1/2" or larger ports and 3/4" hoses, those should still work fine for your power level. Now for running engine coolant through them, that's an area I have no data on. Only know that a primary reason to delete the EGR system and cooler is it's known to cause boiling and break down of the coolant on trucks that tow a bunch. So typically everyone is trying to remove that coolant and exhaust combination from their truck setups. However someone actually holds a patent on Dmax marine manifolds with engine coolant cooling integrated into the cylinder heads. If you look behind the exhaust manifolds, there are small freeze plugs. His design is to make a manifold where the coolant exits the heads thru those holes and flows directly into a cooled exhaust manifold. Problem is, he's never released a set that I know of.
Normally one would just tee into those exhaust pipes with seawater leaving a cooler unit, and run a pressure relief valve to bypass any extra flow out to a dump port on the transom. But if you wanted to run engine coolant thru them, there is only a couple factory spots your can tap into.
Second option might be the factory EGR cooler line that comes out back of the block just above the stock oil filter location. It's about a 3/8" line running from the block up to the EGR cooler near the turbo exit. That might work for the drivers side pipe, but it wouldn't provide enough volume to do both exhaust. So I might suggest looking at how Banks has this one pictured below setup with a custom thermostat housing feeding each side. Problem here is, this whole engine is just a mock up as I found out lately. Those great looking manifolds are plastic. So again no data... And I would think there must be some thermostat bypass involved in his design or the pipes will get hot well be fore the engine comes up to temp.
Third option, and one I would consider doable is tapping into a little block off plate on the passenger side rear cover or transmission adapter. You'll find a flat plate on top there with two bolts and nothing else. Under that plate is a passage that carries coolant from drivers side inlet to passenger side of the block. So anything plumbed in there will not be flow restricted by the thermostats. That's the best place I can think of with easy access to the main coolant supply right off. But your kinda robbing some flow from that half of the engine. GM actually modified the rear housing on the LML models, and put a restrictor ring in the drivers side of that cover to direct more flow to pass side. Tells me they noted some flow issue.
Last, you could come directly off the water pump. Put a fitting into the tube that bolts to the water pump and runs to back of the block. Then your pulling from entire coolant flow, just further up the line than the rear housing..
Hope that helps.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]567607[/ATTACH]
Think I know which manifolds you have with the3/8 NPT fittings. While I prefer 1/2" or larger ports and 3/4" hoses, those should still work fine for your power level. Now for running engine coolant through them, that's an area I have no data on. Only know that a primary reason to delete the EGR system and cooler is it's known to cause boiling and break down of the coolant on trucks that tow a bunch. So typically everyone is trying to remove that coolant and exhaust combination from their truck setups. However someone actually holds a patent on Dmax marine manifolds with engine coolant cooling integrated into the cylinder heads. If you look behind the exhaust manifolds, there are small freeze plugs. His design is to make a manifold where the coolant exits the heads thru those holes and flows directly into a cooled exhaust manifold. Problem is, he's never released a set that I know of.
Normally one would just tee into those exhaust pipes with seawater leaving a cooler unit, and run a pressure relief valve to bypass any extra flow out to a dump port on the transom. But if you wanted to run engine coolant thru them, there is only a couple factory spots your can tap into.
Second option might be the factory EGR cooler line that comes out back of the block just above the stock oil filter location. It's about a 3/8" line running from the block up to the EGR cooler near the turbo exit. That might work for the drivers side pipe, but it wouldn't provide enough volume to do both exhaust. So I might suggest looking at how Banks has this one pictured below setup with a custom thermostat housing feeding each side. Problem here is, this whole engine is just a mock up as I found out lately. Those great looking manifolds are plastic. So again no data... And I would think there must be some thermostat bypass involved in his design or the pipes will get hot well be fore the engine comes up to temp.
Third option, and one I would consider doable is tapping into a little block off plate on the passenger side rear cover or transmission adapter. You'll find a flat plate on top there with two bolts and nothing else. Under that plate is a passage that carries coolant from drivers side inlet to passenger side of the block. So anything plumbed in there will not be flow restricted by the thermostats. That's the best place I can think of with easy access to the main coolant supply right off. But your kinda robbing some flow from that half of the engine. GM actually modified the rear housing on the LML models, and put a restrictor ring in the drivers side of that cover to direct more flow to pass side. Tells me they noted some flow issue.
Last, you could come directly off the water pump. Put a fitting into the tube that bolts to the water pump and runs to back of the block. Then your pulling from entire coolant flow, just further up the line than the rear housing..
Hope that helps.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]567607[/ATTACH]
Last edited by kidturbo; 05-22-2017 at 12:02 PM.
05-22-2017, 07:55 PM
#154
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Thanks Kid
I was hoping for a quick and easy answer. I will be replacing a running Peninsular 6.5 which has coolant cooled manifolds, up pipes and turbo and has been trouble free regarding cooling. I'll check it out for ideas. I think pulling from the water pump would be a good place to start and it would be unrestricted? If this would work, less expensive ( mild steel ) parts could be used for manifolds and up pipes. Maybe. A higher volume pump may be needed.
How would the Livorsi controls work with 2 or 3 stations, would electric shift transmissions work and what's the ballpark cost?
Thanks
I was hoping for a quick and easy answer. I will be replacing a running Peninsular 6.5 which has coolant cooled manifolds, up pipes and turbo and has been trouble free regarding cooling. I'll check it out for ideas. I think pulling from the water pump would be a good place to start and it would be unrestricted? If this would work, less expensive ( mild steel ) parts could be used for manifolds and up pipes. Maybe. A higher volume pump may be needed.
How would the Livorsi controls work with 2 or 3 stations, would electric shift transmissions work and what's the ballpark cost?
Thanks
05-22-2017, 11:01 PM
#155
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Wish I had an easy answer for ya. Just no good examples yet. Looking at the Peninsular is probably best example of how to route the flow. On the Duramax, just keep an eye on temps in higher RPM range for any spikes. The OEM water pumps have been known to cavitate or spin the blades on the shaft. Tack welding the blades and gear to the shaft is probably a good idea if you want to be safe. I don't know of any aftermarket pumps out there with better flow ratings. A belt driven pump could also be used in place of the factory gear driven if needed..
05-23-2017, 01:53 AM
#156
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Good question.. Now sure how the new electronic controls work with dual stations. I can certainly ask Livorsi that one for ya. Guessing some sort of switch to route APPS to which ever throttle set your currently standing at. They can do cable or electronic shift on same stick setup as electronic throttles.
06-18-2017, 09:25 PM
#158
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His was a complicated setup. 6spd Allison transmission with ASD8 drive in a 12k lb boat. When it had a stock engine, he cracked a piston. Air charge cooler was way to small, causing IAT to exceed 300F. That along with a small oil cooler didn't help. Failed exactly how I would have expected with those issues.
Then he cranked it up to about 750hp. Compound turbos on a built engine with race cast pistons and rods. Ran okay for a few weeks, but wasn't getting top end speed he wanted. A tuner out in CA went for a boat ride and made couple adjustments to fuel and timing. Boat picked up like 8mph that day. Next time he fired it up, it had broken the crank... Not a common failure, but certainly not unheard of with these engines even at stock power.
He then purchased a fully custom built 7.1L stroker engine with forged pistons. A little reading will tell ya my thoughts on forged aluminum pistons.. But the engine performed great for a couple more weekends. Then he purchased a new prop that wouldn't hook up to get on plane. He had that prop tuned and was out testing, but it still wouldn't get on plane. On his 4th back to back try, around 4200R, it smoked a hole through a piston. It was later determined that all 8 forged pistons were cracked. He also ditched that prop..
By now the first PPE engine was back with a new crank. He decided to ditch the compounds for a single larger 475 race turbo. Again the boat was running great for a couple outings, and was actually working on some other long standing issues. Was probably making 750-800hp, in the 1500lb ft torque range. He was just getting on plane like normal, and it smoked another piston. I have an idea what happened, but I'm holding my comments till I know for certain. Data logs showed it was running pretty happy earlier that same day.
Then he cranked it up to about 750hp. Compound turbos on a built engine with race cast pistons and rods. Ran okay for a few weeks, but wasn't getting top end speed he wanted. A tuner out in CA went for a boat ride and made couple adjustments to fuel and timing. Boat picked up like 8mph that day. Next time he fired it up, it had broken the crank... Not a common failure, but certainly not unheard of with these engines even at stock power.
He then purchased a fully custom built 7.1L stroker engine with forged pistons. A little reading will tell ya my thoughts on forged aluminum pistons.. But the engine performed great for a couple more weekends. Then he purchased a new prop that wouldn't hook up to get on plane. He had that prop tuned and was out testing, but it still wouldn't get on plane. On his 4th back to back try, around 4200R, it smoked a hole through a piston. It was later determined that all 8 forged pistons were cracked. He also ditched that prop..
By now the first PPE engine was back with a new crank. He decided to ditch the compounds for a single larger 475 race turbo. Again the boat was running great for a couple outings, and was actually working on some other long standing issues. Was probably making 750-800hp, in the 1500lb ft torque range. He was just getting on plane like normal, and it smoked another piston. I have an idea what happened, but I'm holding my comments till I know for certain. Data logs showed it was running pretty happy earlier that same day.
06-19-2017, 02:20 AM
#160
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Like I said, it's a complicated setup. The 6spd transmission suffered from strange shifting issues. The TCM was never able to understand prop slippage I guess.. And there was a lot of different fingers in the tuning over the three builds.
Besides the crank failure, the rest can be explained. He had the stock engine running well over 600hp. But continued running with pilot injection on against advice of some better tuners than I. While pilot injection keeps it from sounding like an old school diesel, it's common to shut that off above 2400R in race applications. Keeps the fuel spray in the bowl of the piston, and lessens likelihood of cracking at the lip. That's likely what lead to all piston issues. Might sound like it's coming apart without pilot injection, but I side with the it's safer off crowd.
Yamaha's haven't been fired up as of last weekend. New wiring and such still being sorted out. But those engines should run happily all day long, just drinking about three times the fuel.
Besides the crank failure, the rest can be explained. He had the stock engine running well over 600hp. But continued running with pilot injection on against advice of some better tuners than I. While pilot injection keeps it from sounding like an old school diesel, it's common to shut that off above 2400R in race applications. Keeps the fuel spray in the bowl of the piston, and lessens likelihood of cracking at the lip. That's likely what lead to all piston issues. Might sound like it's coming apart without pilot injection, but I side with the it's safer off crowd.
Yamaha's haven't been fired up as of last weekend. New wiring and such still being sorted out. But those engines should run happily all day long, just drinking about three times the fuel.
