Bravo Drive Gear Lube Analysis Labs
02-09-2012, 06:22 PM
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I did a test with drive temp gauge and 3 differnt oils,
#1 Mrec drive oil
#2 Amsoil Synthetic
#3 Redline Heavyweight Shock proof
I can't find my notes at the moment, but I will and post the findings, I can tell you that on a 2 mile WOT run the drive temp was 60 degrees cooler with RedLine compared to the Merc. Bravo Xr's with -2 Incos w 5 blade mercs and about 700hp N/A
#1 Mrec drive oil
#2 Amsoil Synthetic
#3 Redline Heavyweight Shock proof
I can't find my notes at the moment, but I will and post the findings, I can tell you that on a 2 mile WOT run the drive temp was 60 degrees cooler with RedLine compared to the Merc. Bravo Xr's with -2 Incos w 5 blade mercs and about 700hp N/A
02-12-2012, 04:50 AM
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I did a test with drive temp gauge and 3 differnt oils,
#1 Mrec drive oil
#2 Amsoil Synthetic
#3 Redline Heavyweight Shock proof
I can't find my notes at the moment, but I will and post the findings, I can tell you that on a 2 mile WOT run the drive temp was 60 degrees cooler with RedLine compared to the Merc. Bravo Xr's with -2 Incos w 5 blade mercs and about 700hp N/A
#1 Mrec drive oil
#2 Amsoil Synthetic
#3 Redline Heavyweight Shock proof
I can't find my notes at the moment, but I will and post the findings, I can tell you that on a 2 mile WOT run the drive temp was 60 degrees cooler with RedLine compared to the Merc. Bravo Xr's with -2 Incos w 5 blade mercs and about 700hp N/A
02-12-2012, 04:53 AM
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02-12-2012, 05:20 AM
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My purpose is to use Bravo lube analysis wear results to pick the best lube package for my drive/engine combo based on independent facts not opinions or anecdotal observations. The end goal is of course to select the best lube package and lube change interval for my engine drive combination that will provide the longest drive life before the inevitable rebuild as well as a means to develop the parameters and levels to red flag drive problems as early as possible so as to address drive lash readjustment or repair before more serious damage is done. The debris magnet is a good means to monitor drive issues but I am hoping for a better/earlier interdiction method. . I have begun my personal library of analysis results by obtaining various Bravo lube samples from some known sources. I have also talked to Blackstone at length. They do not have a lot of Bravo data on file. I think I am becoming one of their biggest drive lube customers.
What actual drive temperature did you observe for the different lubes during the 2 mile WOT run? What drive shower do you use?
Please find those notes and post them. Thanks.
What actual drive temperature did you observe for the different lubes during the 2 mile WOT run? What drive shower do you use?
Please find those notes and post them. Thanks.
Last edited by Rage; 02-12-2012 at 05:28 AM.
02-12-2012, 05:26 AM
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Bravo's produce metal as they age, all there is to it.. From the first time you turn the input shaft metal is wearing off gears until they break in. Then if the preload goes a little lose the pinion thrust washer spins and makes the pencil lead on the magnet stuff. Then the gears start to pit and you flakes and junks.
Best thing is to change if often to try and keep the amount of particules out of the tapered bearings that are preloaded..
Just my observation..
Dick
Best thing is to change if often to try and keep the amount of particules out of the tapered bearings that are preloaded..
Just my observation..
Dick
02-12-2012, 05:35 AM
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Buy a decent microscope and some specimen slides and start your own. Any of the good truck stops oil change centers will do a spectral analysis for you, again- you've gotta start your own book. There really isn't enough of a market in the drive lube category for any of the specialty labs to have a real category for it.
02-12-2012, 09:46 AM
#17
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My recommendation after a rebuild, with new lower and/or new upper XR gears, is to change at 5hrs, 15hrs and then at 25hr of use. After that, somewhere between 25-50hrs. Depending on the lube you are using. I would look at the amount of metal in the oil and determine that it has been too long or it could have gone longer. As the gears break in, you will see a metalic glow to the oil after you drain it into the pan. Sunlight helps you see it. After about 25hrs most of the that metal will clear up. Then you have a period of time where the drive will start to loosen up. When the preload on the input bearings starts to loosen, then the thrust washer will spin and create the fuzz on the magnet.. Then at some point you may start to see the flaking as the gears approach the end of their life.
Oil analisys may be able to tell you the progress of what is happening inside. But prior to end of break in and before thrust bearing spin, I would think you would see a progression of fuzz and metal. When the gears are close to death, then I would expect to see an increase in contamination.
Now mapping of these events may or may not show a smooth progression. Depening on which lube and at what temps the drive runs at, will affect the outcome. It would be interesting to see. But with one bad set of XR upper gears and the results could be skewed. At 600hp you would have better luck with a smooth progression than if the hp was greater.. imho..
Hope that helps.
Dick
Oil analisys may be able to tell you the progress of what is happening inside. But prior to end of break in and before thrust bearing spin, I would think you would see a progression of fuzz and metal. When the gears are close to death, then I would expect to see an increase in contamination.
Now mapping of these events may or may not show a smooth progression. Depening on which lube and at what temps the drive runs at, will affect the outcome. It would be interesting to see. But with one bad set of XR upper gears and the results could be skewed. At 600hp you would have better luck with a smooth progression than if the hp was greater.. imho..
Hope that helps.
Dick
02-12-2012, 03:18 PM
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My recommendation after a rebuild, with new lower and/or new upper XR gears, is to change at 5hrs, 15hrs and then at 25hr of use. After that, somewhere between 25-50hrs. Depending on the lube you are using. I would look at the amount of metal in the oil and determine that it has been too long or it could have gone longer. As the gears break in, you will see a metalic glow to the oil after you drain it into the pan. Sunlight helps you see it. After about 25hrs most of the that metal will clear up. Then you have a period of time where the drive will start to loosen up. When the preload on the input bearings starts to loosen, then the thrust washer will spin and create the fuzz on the magnet.. Then at some point you may start to see the flaking as the gears approach the end of their life.
Oil analisys may be able to tell you the progress of what is happening inside. But prior to end of break in and before thrust bearing spin, I would think you would see a progression of fuzz and metal. When the gears are close to death, then I would expect to see an increase in contamination.
Now mapping of these events may or may not show a smooth progression. Depening on which lube and at what temps the drive runs at, will affect the outcome. It would be interesting to see. But with one bad set of XR upper gears and the results could be skewed. At 600hp you would have better luck with a smooth progression than if the hp was greater.. imho..
Hope that helps.
Dick
Oil analisys may be able to tell you the progress of what is happening inside. But prior to end of break in and before thrust bearing spin, I would think you would see a progression of fuzz and metal. When the gears are close to death, then I would expect to see an increase in contamination.
Now mapping of these events may or may not show a smooth progression. Depening on which lube and at what temps the drive runs at, will affect the outcome. It would be interesting to see. But with one bad set of XR upper gears and the results could be skewed. At 600hp you would have better luck with a smooth progression than if the hp was greater.. imho..
Hope that helps.
Dick
I just experienced a bad pinion. After 10 hours of new gear break in then 18 hours more of normal running the Blackstone lube analysis showed metal wear PPM going through the roof. Tear down then showed deep wear of pinion but everything else looked like new. In my opinion that oil analysis saved my a$$. Unfortunately Redline lubes do not lend themselves to visual inspection for the presence of metals.
02-16-2012, 11:42 AM
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I sent my drive oil sample to blackstone labs. I cant post attachments, so if you want to see it, PM me your e-mail address. Basically, it said my drive is in good shape and an extended oil change interval would be ok. Arcticfriends built the drive and cryo treated the gears. I have used Royal Purple 75w90 since the drive was rebuilt.
02-17-2012, 07:09 PM
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I think I have only sent 3 samples total. One of my drives is perfect and problem free but I think the other has a bad clutch. The analysis could only confirm what I could see that there's to much metal in the oil and it has been overheated but symptoms of the drive problem.
I changed both drives at 25 hrs and the good drive the oil looked brand new black as night on the problem drive. Same results at 12 hrs. The analysis just confirmed what I was seeing in the oil but couldn't identify the exact problem. I think it's the clutch based on describing the symptoms to the drive mechanic. Really all I can do is rebuild it at this point. I don't think I will continue to use oil analysis for the drives as the visual cues oil color, smell and metal on the magnets tell me what I need to know.
Your situation may be different my engines are only 315hp and 500 ft lbs with bravo x drives. I think the drive was not assembled correctly to begin with and is the cause of the problem.
I changed both drives at 25 hrs and the good drive the oil looked brand new black as night on the problem drive. Same results at 12 hrs. The analysis just confirmed what I was seeing in the oil but couldn't identify the exact problem. I think it's the clutch based on describing the symptoms to the drive mechanic. Really all I can do is rebuild it at this point. I don't think I will continue to use oil analysis for the drives as the visual cues oil color, smell and metal on the magnets tell me what I need to know.
Your situation may be different my engines are only 315hp and 500 ft lbs with bravo x drives. I think the drive was not assembled correctly to begin with and is the cause of the problem.
