Alpha 1 no go!
05-31-2015, 09:58 PM
#1
Alpha 1 no go!
Hi All,
I recently began having some issues with my boat. The boat is a 1986 Wellcraft Scarab 1, has been nothing but dead reliable over the past 4 seasons I've owned it. Recently, due to my own stupid install error, the boat left me stranded after I switched my prop from a cheapo aluminum to stainless steel. I missed switching the flo torque plastic insert over to the stainless prop. I have since fixed this issue and for the first time this past week, used the boat. My family rented a lake house to celebrate a graduation for this whole past week. The boat ran absolutely perfect the whole trip until the last run of the last day.
I started out the morning by riding from our lake house (far north lake Lanier) to Susent Cove (far south end of Lake Lanier). When I was pulling away from the dock and planing up, I noticed that the steering seemed really stiff and impossible to turn except with two hands. Once the boat planed up and was out of the water the steering lightened up and returned to normal. I decided to make my way to my destination and check and fill if needed. The boat has had a slow power steering fluid leak that I occasionally have to add fluid to, so I figured that was the issue. As I approached the no wake zone and returned to idle, I noticed that the steering felt normal and easy to turn. Arrived at the cove for the day, met up with some good friends and stayed for about 3-4 hours.
Upon leaving, I went to plane up and the steering became difficult to turn again but felt normal once boat was out of the water. I was cruising along no issues when some large yachts and lots of other traffic began kicking up some huge wake. I throttled back to slow down and turn to avoid some of the chop. When I went to accelerate again, no forward pull, the engine just revved (and sounded/felt normal) but prop would not turn. I felt zero engagement of the gear going from neutral to forward or neutral to reverse. Just lost all drive whatsoever out of nowhere and for no apparent reason. The neutral button plunger occasionally gets stuck when I use it (I usually just push the button again or take off the rubber cover and fiddle with the plunger and it goes back into gear) so I fiddled with it to see if that was the issue. When I would do that it felt like it would attempt to go into gear and then the motor would immediately die. I tried this a number of times before giving up and calling for a tow.
The engine is a carbed 350 mercruiser 260hp, and the boat has an Alpha 1 drive. I had the tow boat take me to the nearest marina/service center and dropped it for the evening. I spoke to the shop this morning and told them what had happened. He immediately suggested it sounded like the coupler had failed and would look at it tomorrow (closed on Sunday). I hate to think that is the issue as the labor cost will be pretty expensive as they would have to remove and replace the engine to change. Also, the countless other parts and things an old boat would inevitably need upon further inspection after removal.
Could the shift cable gone bad? The gear shifter gone bad? Maybe the Prop hub spun somehow? Maybe the Flo Torq plastic insert went bad?
I feel as if it was the coupler, I would have smelled some burning rubber or hear some crazy squeal/grind noise. Also, would it literally go from running perfect (except for the stiff steering when planing the boat) to not moving at all if the coupler was bad or going bad? Do they just fail like that with no signs? Is the stiff steering a symptom of the type of failure I had?
Lots of questions here but those are the possibilities running through my mind with the limited knowledge I have about boat drive systems. Would love to hear your expert opinions and thoughts on the problem I'm having. Thanks for everyone's help in advance!
I recently began having some issues with my boat. The boat is a 1986 Wellcraft Scarab 1, has been nothing but dead reliable over the past 4 seasons I've owned it. Recently, due to my own stupid install error, the boat left me stranded after I switched my prop from a cheapo aluminum to stainless steel. I missed switching the flo torque plastic insert over to the stainless prop. I have since fixed this issue and for the first time this past week, used the boat. My family rented a lake house to celebrate a graduation for this whole past week. The boat ran absolutely perfect the whole trip until the last run of the last day.
I started out the morning by riding from our lake house (far north lake Lanier) to Susent Cove (far south end of Lake Lanier). When I was pulling away from the dock and planing up, I noticed that the steering seemed really stiff and impossible to turn except with two hands. Once the boat planed up and was out of the water the steering lightened up and returned to normal. I decided to make my way to my destination and check and fill if needed. The boat has had a slow power steering fluid leak that I occasionally have to add fluid to, so I figured that was the issue. As I approached the no wake zone and returned to idle, I noticed that the steering felt normal and easy to turn. Arrived at the cove for the day, met up with some good friends and stayed for about 3-4 hours.
Upon leaving, I went to plane up and the steering became difficult to turn again but felt normal once boat was out of the water. I was cruising along no issues when some large yachts and lots of other traffic began kicking up some huge wake. I throttled back to slow down and turn to avoid some of the chop. When I went to accelerate again, no forward pull, the engine just revved (and sounded/felt normal) but prop would not turn. I felt zero engagement of the gear going from neutral to forward or neutral to reverse. Just lost all drive whatsoever out of nowhere and for no apparent reason. The neutral button plunger occasionally gets stuck when I use it (I usually just push the button again or take off the rubber cover and fiddle with the plunger and it goes back into gear) so I fiddled with it to see if that was the issue. When I would do that it felt like it would attempt to go into gear and then the motor would immediately die. I tried this a number of times before giving up and calling for a tow.
The engine is a carbed 350 mercruiser 260hp, and the boat has an Alpha 1 drive. I had the tow boat take me to the nearest marina/service center and dropped it for the evening. I spoke to the shop this morning and told them what had happened. He immediately suggested it sounded like the coupler had failed and would look at it tomorrow (closed on Sunday). I hate to think that is the issue as the labor cost will be pretty expensive as they would have to remove and replace the engine to change. Also, the countless other parts and things an old boat would inevitably need upon further inspection after removal.
Could the shift cable gone bad? The gear shifter gone bad? Maybe the Prop hub spun somehow? Maybe the Flo Torq plastic insert went bad?
I feel as if it was the coupler, I would have smelled some burning rubber or hear some crazy squeal/grind noise. Also, would it literally go from running perfect (except for the stiff steering when planing the boat) to not moving at all if the coupler was bad or going bad? Do they just fail like that with no signs? Is the stiff steering a symptom of the type of failure I had?
Lots of questions here but those are the possibilities running through my mind with the limited knowledge I have about boat drive systems. Would love to hear your expert opinions and thoughts on the problem I'm having. Thanks for everyone's help in advance!
05-31-2015, 10:39 PM
#3
VIP Member
VIP Member
If the coupler went, you should also have an overheat issue, since the water pump is in the drive on an alpha and the vertical shaft wouldn't be turning.
I would be checking the prop hub first
I would be checking the prop hub first
05-31-2015, 11:03 PM
#5
Good stuff and many thanks for the quick replies. I can't remember looking at the temp gauge so I can't say if it was overheating or not. I should have removed the prop but I was flustered and in a rush to get to a friends wedding that evening. Kind of wish I would have just trailered the boat back to storage and spent some time looking at everything on dry land rather than leaving it with the Marina service department. Will look to hear what they say tomorrow. I did look back at the motor when engaging the gear shift and did see the cable moving. I'm assuming the cable that was moving was the throttle cable, does that cable also engage the drive?
06-01-2015, 09:48 AM
#6
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Between A Womans Leggs in IL
Posts: 6,306
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Good stuff and many thanks for the quick replies. I can't remember looking at the temp gauge so I can't say if it was overheating or not. I should have removed the prop but I was flustered and in a rush to get to a friends wedding that evening. Kind of wish I would have just trailered the boat back to storage and spent some time looking at everything on dry land rather than leaving it with the Marina service department. Will look to hear what they say tomorrow. I did look back at the motor when engaging the gear shift and did see the cable moving. I'm assuming the cable that was moving was the throttle cable, does that cable also engage the drive?
trust ne if the drive went on a alpha you would have felt somthing....most likely the torque flo hub...
06-01-2015, 10:22 AM
#7
This is the boat that ran without the hub insert?
Is it possible he rounded the hub in the prop where the flo torque insert grabs? Rounding the inside of the prop portion with the prop splines when it was spinning?
Could this allow the insert to spin inside of the prop?
Is it possible he rounded the hub in the prop where the flo torque insert grabs? Rounding the inside of the prop portion with the prop splines when it was spinning?
Could this allow the insert to spin inside of the prop?
06-01-2015, 09:48 PM
#8
GLENAMY, I appreciate your repeated help these past few weeks! This is the boat that ran without the hub insert. After installing the insert, the boat ran great.
As for a quick update, the service shop called and said that the problem is in fact the coupler. I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case but that's what I'm being told. I was quoted $1,300 to pull the motor and replace the coupler. I can't remember exactly what the technician said he did but he mentioned something about spinning the prop to verify the coupler was in fact the issue. He said that they do in fact fail without warning and that you don't always get a burning smell/vibration/squeal when it happens.
I really hate to think that the motor needs to be pulled out of the boat.. Do you all think $1,300 is a fair price for the work? When he pulls the motor out, I'm tempted to go pick it up and bring it back to my house to go through some odds and ends that I've neglected.. Slow oil leak, power steering fluid leak, plugs/wires, degrease/clean the motor etc..
Also, since I don't know the honesty of this shop (I've never dealt with them before and I always do my own work on the boat) I want to go double check their diagnosis. Would like to pull the prop and look at the flo torq insert and prop hub myself to make sure they're telling the truth.. I want to believe the guy and tell him to proceed with the work but I just have a bit of a hard time believing the boat would go from running absolutely perfect to a major breakdown like this..
Thoughts?
Thanks again!
As for a quick update, the service shop called and said that the problem is in fact the coupler. I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case but that's what I'm being told. I was quoted $1,300 to pull the motor and replace the coupler. I can't remember exactly what the technician said he did but he mentioned something about spinning the prop to verify the coupler was in fact the issue. He said that they do in fact fail without warning and that you don't always get a burning smell/vibration/squeal when it happens.
I really hate to think that the motor needs to be pulled out of the boat.. Do you all think $1,300 is a fair price for the work? When he pulls the motor out, I'm tempted to go pick it up and bring it back to my house to go through some odds and ends that I've neglected.. Slow oil leak, power steering fluid leak, plugs/wires, degrease/clean the motor etc..
Also, since I don't know the honesty of this shop (I've never dealt with them before and I always do my own work on the boat) I want to go double check their diagnosis. Would like to pull the prop and look at the flo torq insert and prop hub myself to make sure they're telling the truth.. I want to believe the guy and tell him to proceed with the work but I just have a bit of a hard time believing the boat would go from running absolutely perfect to a major breakdown like this..
Thoughts?
Thanks again!
06-01-2015, 10:02 PM
#9
Banned
iTrader: (9)
the deal with worn or spun couplers are
old and worn
lack of grease on the splines - friction - heat - wear over time
engine to drive miss alignment - this can happen form motor mounts that dropped / rotted wood for the motor mounts / stringers and or the transom is weak or rotted.
Before moving forward to fix the coupler, it is very wise to have all this checked out first and foremost., any wood rot and solid motor mounts / stringers -
as we all know you have 30 year old wood in that boat - I would question mark all of it ? just saying.
old and worn
lack of grease on the splines - friction - heat - wear over time
engine to drive miss alignment - this can happen form motor mounts that dropped / rotted wood for the motor mounts / stringers and or the transom is weak or rotted.
Before moving forward to fix the coupler, it is very wise to have all this checked out first and foremost., any wood rot and solid motor mounts / stringers -
as we all know you have 30 year old wood in that boat - I would question mark all of it ? just saying.
Last edited by BUP; 06-01-2015 at 10:05 PM.
06-01-2015, 10:36 PM
#10
Wood rot was a major concern of mine when I bought the boat back in 2011. I had the boat thoroughly inspected and the stringers/transom checked for moisture before I bought it. All checked out well. The transom is solid to this day and the boat runs strong and shows no signs of being waterlogged. Motor mounts seem attached very well to bottom of boat and I never have seen any sign of bolts losing tension or backing out.
All that being said, wood rot is still a legitimate concern. Anything could have happened to that wood in the past four years that I've owned the boat, I hope that's not the case though. I will have the wood checked out before making a move on the repairs. If in fact the wood is bad then I don't think it makes sense to salvage this boat. I paid $6K for it four years ago and have had zero reliability issues and very little money in upkeep spent and many hours of fun in it.
I know that the engine was replaced with a new longblock and the drive rebuilt before I bought it. I'd like to think that the coupler was also replaced at that time. Even if it was, I haven't been exactly easy on the boat since I've purchased it. I will admit that I run her pretty hard and probably need to back off a bit moving forward!
Still would like to know everyones opinion on the $1,300 charge if in fact the stringers/transom are still solid and the boat is worth fixing.
All that being said, wood rot is still a legitimate concern. Anything could have happened to that wood in the past four years that I've owned the boat, I hope that's not the case though. I will have the wood checked out before making a move on the repairs. If in fact the wood is bad then I don't think it makes sense to salvage this boat. I paid $6K for it four years ago and have had zero reliability issues and very little money in upkeep spent and many hours of fun in it.
I know that the engine was replaced with a new longblock and the drive rebuilt before I bought it. I'd like to think that the coupler was also replaced at that time. Even if it was, I haven't been exactly easy on the boat since I've purchased it. I will admit that I run her pretty hard and probably need to back off a bit moving forward!
Still would like to know everyones opinion on the $1,300 charge if in fact the stringers/transom are still solid and the boat is worth fixing.
