Formula Brochures and Performance Results
02-11-2017, 07:26 AM
#51
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In response to the 1986 or 1987 specs shown at the beginning of this thread. When you see an F206, F233, or F242LS with the 350 mag and "perf" designation, it does not indicate a different engine. In 1987,1988,and1989 there was a performance package option on single engine boats. It was an upgrade to a 21" cleaver prop, and most importantly, a 2" higher X dimension when the drive is rigged into the boat at the factory. Made a big difference on my 1987 F206LS. In 1987, the factory would not install any bigger engine than the 350 mag, 270 HP in an F206. I'm not sure how they handled the F233 and F242. It wasn't until 1988 or 1989 that they allowed the 320 EFI to be installed in an F206. I went to the factory in the fall of 1986 to beg them for a big block or at least the 320EFI or Tempest in my factory ordered 1987 F206. No dice, product liability concerns. Great factory tour though. Cool to see the crated KAAMA engine packages sitting in the cage along the outside of the assembly floor. My F206 was delivered in February 1987 with a 350 mag and performance package.
02-11-2017, 11:20 AM
#52
Caemi,
The cleavers used were stock Mercruiser units for the alpha drives and the TRS drives. They were also available on the Bravo 1. They have an exhaust style hub like standard props. I think the diameter was 14-3/4" with varieties of pitch. The one that came on my F206 was 14-3/4" x 21. My original had a flexible rubber hub but some props had fixed hubs for those who were more brave than I. Mercury began the development of the Bravo 1 stainless props around 1988 or 1989 and the cleavers fell out of favor. I tried different full-eared bravo 1 props on my boat but those props did not give me the bow lift or ride comfort that the cleavers do. Tried different pitches of cleavers and full-eared, but overall performance was best with the original 21 pitch cleaver. I'm sure it was due to the raised X dimension of Formula's performance package. The cleavers are slow out of the hole with a full load of people on board but once on plane, the boat really airs out. With just me and a light fuel load, my F206 is a rocket out of the hole.You can find stainless cleavers all over the place. Try this site or ebay. Most people traded out cleavers to Bravo 1 props as they work better on most stock setups, and on the bigger and heavier boats. You might find pics of them if you can find an old Mercruiser brochure from the era. Also look at old performance boat manufacturer brochures as these props were often used on twin engine performance boats like Formula, Wellcraft Scarab, Donzi, etc. Formula's website has PDF files of their old brochures in the archive section.
ALJ
The cleavers used were stock Mercruiser units for the alpha drives and the TRS drives. They were also available on the Bravo 1. They have an exhaust style hub like standard props. I think the diameter was 14-3/4" with varieties of pitch. The one that came on my F206 was 14-3/4" x 21. My original had a flexible rubber hub but some props had fixed hubs for those who were more brave than I. Mercury began the development of the Bravo 1 stainless props around 1988 or 1989 and the cleavers fell out of favor. I tried different full-eared bravo 1 props on my boat but those props did not give me the bow lift or ride comfort that the cleavers do. Tried different pitches of cleavers and full-eared, but overall performance was best with the original 21 pitch cleaver. I'm sure it was due to the raised X dimension of Formula's performance package. The cleavers are slow out of the hole with a full load of people on board but once on plane, the boat really airs out. With just me and a light fuel load, my F206 is a rocket out of the hole.You can find stainless cleavers all over the place. Try this site or ebay. Most people traded out cleavers to Bravo 1 props as they work better on most stock setups, and on the bigger and heavier boats. You might find pics of them if you can find an old Mercruiser brochure from the era. Also look at old performance boat manufacturer brochures as these props were often used on twin engine performance boats like Formula, Wellcraft Scarab, Donzi, etc. Formula's website has PDF files of their old brochures in the archive section.
ALJ
02-12-2017, 08:29 AM
#53
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Caemi,
The cleavers used were stock Mercruiser units for the alpha drives and the TRS drives. They were also available on the Bravo 1. They have an exhaust style hub like standard props. I think the diameter was 14-3/4" with varieties of pitch. The one that came on my F206 was 14-3/4" x 21. My original had a flexible rubber hub but some props had fixed hubs for those who were more brave than I. Mercury began the development of the Bravo 1 stainless props around 1988 or 1989 and the cleavers fell out of favor. I tried different full-eared bravo 1 props on my boat but those props did not give me the bow lift or ride comfort that the cleavers do. Tried different pitches of cleavers and full-eared, but overall performance was best with the original 21 pitch cleaver. I'm sure it was due to the raised X dimension of Formula's performance package. The cleavers are slow out of the hole with a full load of people on board but once on plane, the boat really airs out. With just me and a light fuel load, my F206 is a rocket out of the hole.You can find stainless cleavers all over the place. Try this site or ebay. Most people traded out cleavers to Bravo 1 props as they work better on most stock setups, and on the bigger and heavier boats. You might find pics of them if you can find an old Mercruiser brochure from the era. Also look at old performance boat manufacturer brochures as these props were often used on twin engine performance boats like Formula, Wellcraft Scarab, Donzi, etc. Formula's website has PDF files of their old brochures in the archive section.
ALJ
The cleavers used were stock Mercruiser units for the alpha drives and the TRS drives. They were also available on the Bravo 1. They have an exhaust style hub like standard props. I think the diameter was 14-3/4" with varieties of pitch. The one that came on my F206 was 14-3/4" x 21. My original had a flexible rubber hub but some props had fixed hubs for those who were more brave than I. Mercury began the development of the Bravo 1 stainless props around 1988 or 1989 and the cleavers fell out of favor. I tried different full-eared bravo 1 props on my boat but those props did not give me the bow lift or ride comfort that the cleavers do. Tried different pitches of cleavers and full-eared, but overall performance was best with the original 21 pitch cleaver. I'm sure it was due to the raised X dimension of Formula's performance package. The cleavers are slow out of the hole with a full load of people on board but once on plane, the boat really airs out. With just me and a light fuel load, my F206 is a rocket out of the hole.You can find stainless cleavers all over the place. Try this site or ebay. Most people traded out cleavers to Bravo 1 props as they work better on most stock setups, and on the bigger and heavier boats. You might find pics of them if you can find an old Mercruiser brochure from the era. Also look at old performance boat manufacturer brochures as these props were often used on twin engine performance boats like Formula, Wellcraft Scarab, Donzi, etc. Formula's website has PDF files of their old brochures in the archive section.
ALJ
02-12-2017, 08:54 AM
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I also just realized that if I'd been SMART, I would have asked why the boat had a 14x19 on it before I bought it. Oh well...live and learn. I still would have bought it...just too nice to pass up...but I might have been able to catholic him down on the price a bit more depending on the answer. Maybe the engine is tiring out...maybe he slapped it on one day because it was a cheap prop...whatever the reason, I'm gonna add that observation to my boat-buying research.
02-12-2017, 10:55 AM
#55
I have a 19 pitch prop in the boat as a spare. I change it out for water skiing. Much faster out of the hole for water skiing. I'm sure that is what your previous owner did. You can check X dimension by lowering the drive until the "ride plate" of the drive is parallel to the bottom of the boat at the keel (not trimmed all the way in). What i call the ride plate is the flat plate of the drive that is above the prop. Normal x dimension has that plate even with the bottom keel of the boat. Mine is 2 inches above the keel. Raised X works particularly well with cleaver props, but this is still old school technology. Trade off is slower time to on-plane. Good for top speed, bad for skiing. I've had 30 years to screw around with dozens of props and I simply prefer the original setup. Each boat and each owner is different.
My F206 has a different engine now. Original 350 mag was hydrolocked in about 1992. I installed GM performance ZZ4 crate engine and Imco headers with 4" tailpipes. Cost for engine was about the same as a high performance rebuild by Mel Riggs. GM won't warranty any crate motor for marine use but just tell them it's going into your 1974 Camaro. There are a bunch of even better small block crate motors available today. Just make sure it's based on older 350 block style for easy bolt in installation. Alpha will hold up against a high horsepower small block, but won't against any big block. That advise came from Mel Riggs himself. My alpha has never been apart, 25 years against 400+ horsepower. Save your money for a GM crate motor, I was surprised to find out that my Mercury 350 Mag was a basic 2 bolt main 350 engine with a slightly hotter cam. Not even worth the rebuild. The ZZ4 specs were better than Chevrolet's 1970 LT1 350 engine in the Z-28. You can get crate engines today that are stroked to 383C.I. or more with Vortec heads and all the ZZ series goodies and they come with a warranty (in your Camaro of coarse). My boat is a fresh water boat though. I would never put it in salt water unless converted to closed cooling. ZZ series engines have aluminum heads and intake, same as original LT1. Use the Mercury Quadrajet, Distributor-brain box, alternator, and water circulation pump from the old engine and you are done.
ALJ
My F206 has a different engine now. Original 350 mag was hydrolocked in about 1992. I installed GM performance ZZ4 crate engine and Imco headers with 4" tailpipes. Cost for engine was about the same as a high performance rebuild by Mel Riggs. GM won't warranty any crate motor for marine use but just tell them it's going into your 1974 Camaro. There are a bunch of even better small block crate motors available today. Just make sure it's based on older 350 block style for easy bolt in installation. Alpha will hold up against a high horsepower small block, but won't against any big block. That advise came from Mel Riggs himself. My alpha has never been apart, 25 years against 400+ horsepower. Save your money for a GM crate motor, I was surprised to find out that my Mercury 350 Mag was a basic 2 bolt main 350 engine with a slightly hotter cam. Not even worth the rebuild. The ZZ4 specs were better than Chevrolet's 1970 LT1 350 engine in the Z-28. You can get crate engines today that are stroked to 383C.I. or more with Vortec heads and all the ZZ series goodies and they come with a warranty (in your Camaro of coarse). My boat is a fresh water boat though. I would never put it in salt water unless converted to closed cooling. ZZ series engines have aluminum heads and intake, same as original LT1. Use the Mercury Quadrajet, Distributor-brain box, alternator, and water circulation pump from the old engine and you are done.
ALJ
02-12-2017, 11:29 AM
#56
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I have a 19 pitch prop in the boat as a spare. I change it out for water skiing. Much faster out of the hole for water skiing. I'm sure that is what your previous owner did. You can check X dimension by lowering the drive until the "ride plate" of the drive is parallel to the bottom of the boat at the keel (not trimmed all the way in). What i call the ride plate is the flat plate of the drive that is above the prop. Normal x dimension has that plate even with the bottom keel of the boat. Mine is 2 inches above the keel. Raised X works particularly well with cleaver props, but this is still old school technology. Trade off is slower time to on-plane. Good for top speed, bad for skiing. I've had 30 years to screw around with dozens of props and I simply prefer the original setup. Each boat and each owner is different.
My F206 has a different engine now. Original 350 mag was hydrolocked in about 1992. I installed GM performance ZZ4 crate engine and Imco headers with 4" tailpipes. Cost for engine was about the same as a high performance rebuild by Mel Riggs. GM won't warranty any crate motor for marine use but just tell them it's going into your 1974 Camaro. There are a bunch of even better small block crate motors available today. Just make sure it's based on older 350 block style for easy bolt in installation. Alpha will hold up against a high horsepower small block, but won't against any big block. That advise came from Mel Riggs himself. My alpha has never been apart, 25 years against 400+ horsepower. Save your money for a GM crate motor, I was surprised to find out that my Mercury 350 Mag was a basic 2 bolt main 350 engine with a slightly hotter cam. Not even worth the rebuild. The ZZ4 specs were better than Chevrolet's 1970 LT1 350 engine in the Z-28. You can get crate engines today that are stroked to 383C.I. or more with Vortec heads and all the ZZ series goodies and they come with a warranty (in your Camaro of coarse). My boat is a fresh water boat though. I would never put it in salt water unless converted to closed cooling. ZZ series engines have aluminum heads and intake, same as original LT1. Use the Mercury Quadrajet, Distributor-brain box, alternator, and water circulation pump from the old engine and you are done.
ALJ
My F206 has a different engine now. Original 350 mag was hydrolocked in about 1992. I installed GM performance ZZ4 crate engine and Imco headers with 4" tailpipes. Cost for engine was about the same as a high performance rebuild by Mel Riggs. GM won't warranty any crate motor for marine use but just tell them it's going into your 1974 Camaro. There are a bunch of even better small block crate motors available today. Just make sure it's based on older 350 block style for easy bolt in installation. Alpha will hold up against a high horsepower small block, but won't against any big block. That advise came from Mel Riggs himself. My alpha has never been apart, 25 years against 400+ horsepower. Save your money for a GM crate motor, I was surprised to find out that my Mercury 350 Mag was a basic 2 bolt main 350 engine with a slightly hotter cam. Not even worth the rebuild. The ZZ4 specs were better than Chevrolet's 1970 LT1 350 engine in the Z-28. You can get crate engines today that are stroked to 383C.I. or more with Vortec heads and all the ZZ series goodies and they come with a warranty (in your Camaro of coarse). My boat is a fresh water boat though. I would never put it in salt water unless converted to closed cooling. ZZ series engines have aluminum heads and intake, same as original LT1. Use the Mercury Quadrajet, Distributor-brain box, alternator, and water circulation pump from the old engine and you are done.
ALJ
So, all of this made me think about building another engine...not quite so hot, but maybe 300hp. You finding a two bolt motor is remarkable and that eased my mine. But that also says what many hotrod pals of mine have always said...two bolt SBC's are just fine up to 400hp. And 400 is a TON out of that displacement.
Just before the pastor got rolling this morning, I sat in the pew reading about crate motors on my phone. I'm going to finish this note and go look up ZZ motors! (I'm Craig Ellis, btw, and live on a farm north of Port Huron, MI about ten minutes from the lake).
Thank you again for all the intel. I'll try not to annoy you with too many questions but, clearly, you understand these 206's and I am truly looking forward to doing the same with mine.
02-12-2017, 12:21 PM
#57
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Just found this: http://www.karlperformanceparts.com/...FZS3wAodwRYGrQ
SP350/357 Base Chevrolet Performance Crate Engine 357 hp @ 5,500 rpm / 407 lb.-ft. @ 4,000 rpm. $3500.
Basically, ten bucks a horse. Very not bad...and with a warranty. "The SP350/357 leverages the strength of a strong rotating assembly secured in a brand-new block with four-bolt mains, along with economical Vortec iron cylinder heads. A roller camshaft optimizes drivability and airflow capability. It all adds up to a 24-horsepower gain over our 350 HO crate engine – and a great, affordable alternative to rebuilding."
SP350/357 Base Chevrolet Performance Crate Engine 357 hp @ 5,500 rpm / 407 lb.-ft. @ 4,000 rpm. $3500.
Basically, ten bucks a horse. Very not bad...and with a warranty. "The SP350/357 leverages the strength of a strong rotating assembly secured in a brand-new block with four-bolt mains, along with economical Vortec iron cylinder heads. A roller camshaft optimizes drivability and airflow capability. It all adds up to a 24-horsepower gain over our 350 HO crate engine – and a great, affordable alternative to rebuilding."
02-13-2017, 11:22 AM
#58
Just to clarify... The original 350 mag was only in my boat for about 5 years. I would have thought that Mercury would specify 4 bolt blocks in the higher performance "mag" engines but was disappointed to see that it was just a 2 bolt main block. Not worth rebuilding. Remember that boats, especially performance boats, are expected by their doofus owners (us), are expected to hold the engines together for long distances and relatively high RPM's. That's why strong 4 bolt blocks should be used, although everyone will chime in to debate the strength of 2 bolt vs. 4 bolt vs. splayed cap vs. ......yada yada. Check the components of the cheaper crate motors against what you get in the GM Performance Parts crate motors like the ZZ series and you will see it is night and day. Aluminum heads, aluminum intake, forged crank, forged rods, forged pistons, larger valves, roller cam assembly, etc. You can't purchase the parts and rebuild an existing motor for the final cost of of an equivalent crate motor. Also important to check your Horsepower and torque ratings at actual WOT operating range. The drive and prop system will keep you at 4800 to 5200 rpm or so. That SP350/357 may only deliver 290 or 300 HP at 4800 rpm. And HP really means a lot less in a boat than torque. You have to look at torque curves more than HP curves. I simply went for the most torque I could get at the operating RPM range. There are many more options today than in 1992 when I bought the ZZ4. The stroker 383's should be ideal boat motors. Aluminum heads and intake only for freshwater.
02-13-2017, 11:41 AM
#59
Look at the SP383 in Karls website. Found it under "Small block crate engines" tab. Not listed under "GM performance small block engines" tab????? Basically ZZ6 specs without forged rods. Torque tops out around 4600 rpm. Pricey but PERFECT!
05-18-2017, 08:29 AM
#60
Torque around 4600 is high. I would think the boat would take a month to get up on plane?
