where are the Formulas with Kaama drives
Platinum Member
02-10-2003, 01:10 AM
#13
Alright boys, quiet down. Scott, hows it goin? Back to Rambunctious, the question is one of supply mostly. The last year Formula officially offered Kaama packages was 1986. Only on the 357 and 311. I saw one (a 357) in ontario two years ago. This boat was beautiful and contrary to the popular belief out there that Kaamas and horsepower don't coexist, this one was running 850 hp big blocks. The reason not many are out there is probably due to the $20000.00 penalty over the merc420 package. They are out there though. I have a f402 with kaamas that looks exactly like the 1985 brocure boat. I hang with a friend who has an f302 Kamma. The side by side roosters don't look too bad! Parts aren't really that hard to find; and as my friend found out , you can basically take the drive into berry bearing, throw it on the counter and have it rebuilt in an hour. Most of it is stock, off the shelf Spicer components and CR seals. (Marinas don't like em though: too scary for them usually) I was able to look at three formulas for sale two years ago when I bought mine. Look on boats.com. Part of the Kaama "thing" is that you will end up having to become an expert of sorts on the drives and transmissions. Thats so you can sort through the bullcrap that every other "expert" starts spouting off to you. Obviously you're on the right track here. Just take everything you hear with a grain of salt. If you have searched a lot of threads as I have, you should have found that Kaama owners LOVE their boats. It seems there is a lot of others with opinions, right or wrong, that slam Kaama boats. Usually they don't own one. Bottom line; they are very simple in design, they use simple off the shelf parts, there are suppliers of most every part except cases (cases can be repaired), and the transmission manufacturer is still in business and would be more than happy to help replace a part or rebuild your unit at very reasonable costs. Nothing to fear. Go out and find your Formula. Get on the formula web site and sign up for their newsletter "Formula Action". Watch for the worlds largest Formula rendevous next august in lake of the ozarks. I want to see a Kaama Formula down there next summer with RAMBUNCTIOUS across it's stern. And I don't want to hear all you weinies talkin about how you can't tow that far, Whaa Whaa. Try towing 16500lbs of F402 and trailer. Scott' you should look for a Formula too. Skip that Cigarette thing. Just give you cancer.
02-10-2003, 12:21 PM
#14
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Hi Al,
First, I sent you an email earlier. Pls check and reply asap
Anyway, thanks for chiming in. Yes, I already admitted going around in circles trying to decide what to get. I loved my Cig and Formula. Although I have been seriously considering an Apache, I'm not sure that makes sense. I'm just going to hang loose, keep my eyes open, and see what sifts to the top.
Regarding your kaama comments, you're right on the money. As I understand it, there's even a guy on the west coast that specializes in repairing and/or providing new housings. Everything else is stock.
The one thing I have heard from someone herein with a 302/Kaama during direct conversations is, the real weak link is more the trans with overheating during prolonged high rpms. I'm not sure if you've had an opportunity to experience this and/or troubleshoot a resolution, but for his sake and others, if you have, perhaps you'd kindly add your .02 about this, one way or the other.
Thx!
First, I sent you an email earlier. Pls check and reply asap
Anyway, thanks for chiming in. Yes, I already admitted going around in circles trying to decide what to get. I loved my Cig and Formula. Although I have been seriously considering an Apache, I'm not sure that makes sense. I'm just going to hang loose, keep my eyes open, and see what sifts to the top.
Regarding your kaama comments, you're right on the money. As I understand it, there's even a guy on the west coast that specializes in repairing and/or providing new housings. Everything else is stock.
The one thing I have heard from someone herein with a 302/Kaama during direct conversations is, the real weak link is more the trans with overheating during prolonged high rpms. I'm not sure if you've had an opportunity to experience this and/or troubleshoot a resolution, but for his sake and others, if you have, perhaps you'd kindly add your .02 about this, one way or the other.
Thx!
02-10-2003, 08:42 PM
#15
Registered
Thread Starter
thanks for the updates.
chris M just posted his mint 302 with kaamas for sale here.
DON'T ANYONE GO JUMPIN ON MY DEAL NOW !!!
anyway. the boat is beautiful, unbelievably clean.
so I need opinions. do I trade up my 1988 272 (in stellar condition as well) for a 1986 302, or hold out for 1988+ 311 or 357?
what differences in size do you see(notice) in 311 vs it's predecessor the 302
is the 311 all new hull? the decks are very similar (except obvious windshield differences.)
opinions please.
chris M just posted his mint 302 with kaamas for sale here.
DON'T ANYONE GO JUMPIN ON MY DEAL NOW !!!
anyway. the boat is beautiful, unbelievably clean.
so I need opinions. do I trade up my 1988 272 (in stellar condition as well) for a 1986 302, or hold out for 1988+ 311 or 357?
what differences in size do you see(notice) in 311 vs it's predecessor the 302
is the 311 all new hull? the decks are very similar (except obvious windshield differences.)
opinions please.
02-20-2003, 01:10 AM
#16
F302 vs F311 or F357
Hey there rambunctious,
Obviously there is the money issue. You have to decide. The 311 hull is different than a 302 (not just size) The pad is updated as are some mold changes on the transom. Bosses for exhaust etc. are eliminated on 311 and 357. This is to accomodate silent thunder platforms. Strakes and other bottom details are similar. Both hulls are great performers. 357 is a similar design as 311. The key factor is weight. The 302 trips the scales at 6950 lbs. The 311 at 7400. But, as they say in the movies, it's not always about what you can see. The 302 has a max carrying capacity of 3000 lbs. The 311 drops to 2300. Go figure? I have close friends with both these boats exactly. The 311 and 357 absolutely shine as far as cockpits, cabins, ergonomics, fit and finish, materials etc. I own a 1987 F206 (curved glass) and I own an F402 older style boat. I have a strong preference for the curved glass style boat. All around it is a nicer boat in the above mentioned areas. The F402 Is very dated in comparison. However, my F206 is dated when you compare it to a 2003 F353 with platinum imron design. All is relative. I too didn't know what direction to go.
A friend of mine sent me down the road i ended on. He started with a Baja 24 on inland lakes. When he went out to lake michigan with it he got in big trouble. We all have heard a version of this story. The great lakes don't sink 900 foot ore ships because they're tame compared to the oceans. Chicago to Milwaukee- good weather. Milwaukee back to chicago? Not so good weather. Lake Michigan people can cringe now. The wind shifted to out of the northeast. Increased wind speed to 35 mph. Ten miles south of Milwaukee, they stuffed thier 24 Baja. Everyone in the hospital. Next boat! Moves up to 30 Cig Bullet. Stuffs it in 4 to 5 rollers. Next!!!! Buys 35 Cig Cafe Racer. Still stuffs it in lake michigans finest! Only owns the Cafe for 9 months. Moves to the Cig 38 Top Gun. Finally not getting wet all the time. His advise? If you run inland lakes all the time, you will be happiest with a 30 foot boat. If you go to the big lakes, It better be 38 or longer or you'll never be happy. I can hear the 35 foot guys howling now! I thought long and hard about what he said. I really wanted a 357, BAD! Found an incredible one, a 1986 with KAMMAs and red imron, in canada. Had an impecable black one at my local dealer. I bought the 402. It's not the fastest out there. Formula's rarely are. If you want fast, buy a checkmate and drop a 900sc in it. If you want a great boat, well you know, buy a formula.
Fast in 30 foot range? F302 with KAMMAs. my buddy is in the upper 70's with mild 502 carb engines. The only drawback is the older styling. Newer 311 or 357 will be slower (but....they're heavier) Styling kicks ass. The biggest questions are 1. What water are you going to use it on? 2. How much discomfort are you or your loved ones going to tolerate if you buy a boat and put it into conditions beyond it's size? One bad day on the big lake and your significant other will never set foot on that boat again. Go look carefully at all three. Great deals can be had on them all. Good luck!!!! al
Obviously there is the money issue. You have to decide. The 311 hull is different than a 302 (not just size) The pad is updated as are some mold changes on the transom. Bosses for exhaust etc. are eliminated on 311 and 357. This is to accomodate silent thunder platforms. Strakes and other bottom details are similar. Both hulls are great performers. 357 is a similar design as 311. The key factor is weight. The 302 trips the scales at 6950 lbs. The 311 at 7400. But, as they say in the movies, it's not always about what you can see. The 302 has a max carrying capacity of 3000 lbs. The 311 drops to 2300. Go figure? I have close friends with both these boats exactly. The 311 and 357 absolutely shine as far as cockpits, cabins, ergonomics, fit and finish, materials etc. I own a 1987 F206 (curved glass) and I own an F402 older style boat. I have a strong preference for the curved glass style boat. All around it is a nicer boat in the above mentioned areas. The F402 Is very dated in comparison. However, my F206 is dated when you compare it to a 2003 F353 with platinum imron design. All is relative. I too didn't know what direction to go.
A friend of mine sent me down the road i ended on. He started with a Baja 24 on inland lakes. When he went out to lake michigan with it he got in big trouble. We all have heard a version of this story. The great lakes don't sink 900 foot ore ships because they're tame compared to the oceans. Chicago to Milwaukee- good weather. Milwaukee back to chicago? Not so good weather. Lake Michigan people can cringe now. The wind shifted to out of the northeast. Increased wind speed to 35 mph. Ten miles south of Milwaukee, they stuffed thier 24 Baja. Everyone in the hospital. Next boat! Moves up to 30 Cig Bullet. Stuffs it in 4 to 5 rollers. Next!!!! Buys 35 Cig Cafe Racer. Still stuffs it in lake michigans finest! Only owns the Cafe for 9 months. Moves to the Cig 38 Top Gun. Finally not getting wet all the time. His advise? If you run inland lakes all the time, you will be happiest with a 30 foot boat. If you go to the big lakes, It better be 38 or longer or you'll never be happy. I can hear the 35 foot guys howling now! I thought long and hard about what he said. I really wanted a 357, BAD! Found an incredible one, a 1986 with KAMMAs and red imron, in canada. Had an impecable black one at my local dealer. I bought the 402. It's not the fastest out there. Formula's rarely are. If you want fast, buy a checkmate and drop a 900sc in it. If you want a great boat, well you know, buy a formula.
Fast in 30 foot range? F302 with KAMMAs. my buddy is in the upper 70's with mild 502 carb engines. The only drawback is the older styling. Newer 311 or 357 will be slower (but....they're heavier) Styling kicks ass. The biggest questions are 1. What water are you going to use it on? 2. How much discomfort are you or your loved ones going to tolerate if you buy a boat and put it into conditions beyond it's size? One bad day on the big lake and your significant other will never set foot on that boat again. Go look carefully at all three. Great deals can be had on them all. Good luck!!!! al
02-20-2003, 06:39 AM
#17
Registered
Thread Starter
Thanks Al for the info. you seem to know your formula history
one thing is finite. I only want a formula. thats the easy part
it seems the kaama obsession of mine is the overriding factor.
If these three boats had same trs drives, I would discount the 302.
but the thing is so clean. it has the same (exact color) McCloud bolster interior as mine. just a short flat windshield. from the pics, being in such good shape, it looks classic as opposed to old if you know what i mean. I see $10k difference between low hr, trailered 302,311, and 357's.
my buddies super clean 311 with 420's will be for sale this fall. I have first right of refusal. that is the most probable boat for me, but if the right kaama boat comes along......hmmm
my 272 is big enough for our riding along the west coast of lake Mich. infact, mine is the second largest in our work's boating club, second to my buddies aforementioned 311.
how about I come and see your's and your friends, and go for a ride. it's gonna be 42 tomorrow!!!!!!
hot....
at a minimum, you have to come and see us in Holland or Grand Haven this summer. maybe watch Smoke on the water. Over Here you have about 1 hour from when you site the lighting to get off the water
you can check out a local's (Rick D) 382 kevlar custom formula with Lingenfelter's... it is something. 90+
one thing is finite. I only want a formula. thats the easy part
it seems the kaama obsession of mine is the overriding factor.
If these three boats had same trs drives, I would discount the 302.
but the thing is so clean. it has the same (exact color) McCloud bolster interior as mine. just a short flat windshield. from the pics, being in such good shape, it looks classic as opposed to old if you know what i mean. I see $10k difference between low hr, trailered 302,311, and 357's.
my buddies super clean 311 with 420's will be for sale this fall. I have first right of refusal. that is the most probable boat for me, but if the right kaama boat comes along......hmmm
my 272 is big enough for our riding along the west coast of lake Mich. infact, mine is the second largest in our work's boating club, second to my buddies aforementioned 311.
how about I come and see your's and your friends, and go for a ride. it's gonna be 42 tomorrow!!!!!!
hot....at a minimum, you have to come and see us in Holland or Grand Haven this summer. maybe watch Smoke on the water. Over Here you have about 1 hour from when you site the lighting to get off the water
you can check out a local's (Rick D) 382 kevlar custom formula with Lingenfelter's... it is something. 90+
Last edited by Rambunctious; 02-20-2003 at 06:46 AM.
02-20-2003, 01:31 PM
#18
Hey there Rambunctious,
They all sound like good opportunities. The KAMMA's have a "way cool" factor built in. Whether on the water or on the trailer, everyone wants to see. Love to go out today but I can't come up with enough trolling motors to push this tank. Motors are in the garage having the final touches put on for spring. A trip to Grand Haven is definetly in the works this summer. Hey, are you and your buds going to the Formula rendevous in lake o ozarks this summer? I'm starting to line up accomodations with some friends. I've never been there. Did see a home movie of party cove though. I'm goin this summer!!!!!!! What happens on the far side over there if you are more than an hour from home when you see the lightning? What is Lake St Clair. I see a reference to that all the time. What the hell is a mcloud bolster interior?........Do you mean Mcleod? Or a guy on a horse? I need upholstery too. You got any ideas?
Talk to ya later........Al
They all sound like good opportunities. The KAMMA's have a "way cool" factor built in. Whether on the water or on the trailer, everyone wants to see. Love to go out today but I can't come up with enough trolling motors to push this tank. Motors are in the garage having the final touches put on for spring. A trip to Grand Haven is definetly in the works this summer. Hey, are you and your buds going to the Formula rendevous in lake o ozarks this summer? I'm starting to line up accomodations with some friends. I've never been there. Did see a home movie of party cove though. I'm goin this summer!!!!!!! What happens on the far side over there if you are more than an hour from home when you see the lightning? What is Lake St Clair. I see a reference to that all the time. What the hell is a mcloud bolster interior?........Do you mean Mcleod? Or a guy on a horse?
I need upholstery too. You got any ideas?Talk to ya later........Al
02-20-2003, 02:32 PM
#19
Registered
Thread Starter
ok Mcleod. smart A$$....
I took my spelling lessons from Puder.
Lake St Clair is the large lake in the detroit area that separates Lk Huron from the detroit river and eventually lake Erie. look on the map at detroit, can't miss it
it is quite shallow (12' average) and therefore quite a choppy mess. (waves carry on in the shallow water) (kinda like LOTO on the weekend I think). St. Clair has the nautical mile. the most registered boats within one mile of shoreline ( tons of man made canals from the 60's) kinda busy, but lots of cool boats and detroit money.
west coast of lake michigan is a much more beautiful area. huge sand dunes. beautiful public beaches, many ports, (South haven, Saugatuck, Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, White Hall, Ludington, Pentwater, Traverse, Harbor Springs, Charlevoix, Petosky, and on and on) great fishing too.
Grand Haven has a great municipal marina,( about $28 a night to slip!!) a resort town with nice restaurants and bars, shopping, etc. state park with HUGE beach, dunes. and then the accessable lake "spring lake" with their hanky panky bay. plan for Smoke or the great lakes silver cup series event on labor day. i can get you race patrol boat status if you like.
anyway we digress......... anyone else have a kaama boat for sale.
I took my spelling lessons from Puder.Lake St Clair is the large lake in the detroit area that separates Lk Huron from the detroit river and eventually lake Erie. look on the map at detroit, can't miss it
it is quite shallow (12' average) and therefore quite a choppy mess. (waves carry on in the shallow water) (kinda like LOTO on the weekend I think). St. Clair has the nautical mile. the most registered boats within one mile of shoreline ( tons of man made canals from the 60's) kinda busy, but lots of cool boats and detroit money.
west coast of lake michigan is a much more beautiful area. huge sand dunes. beautiful public beaches, many ports, (South haven, Saugatuck, Holland, Grand Haven, Muskegon, White Hall, Ludington, Pentwater, Traverse, Harbor Springs, Charlevoix, Petosky, and on and on) great fishing too.
Grand Haven has a great municipal marina,( about $28 a night to slip!!) a resort town with nice restaurants and bars, shopping, etc. state park with HUGE beach, dunes. and then the accessable lake "spring lake" with their hanky panky bay. plan for Smoke or the great lakes silver cup series event on labor day. i can get you race patrol boat status if you like.
anyway we digress......... anyone else have a kaama boat for sale.
02-20-2003, 03:25 PM
#20
Registered
Thread Starter
oh,
I would love to go to LOTO, but will probably only get to go if the wife and two little ones come. my buddy waterfoul has shown me the fun times to be had.
it would be awesome to be apart of the formula rondevous as that would be a great place to find fresh water formulas for sale. and get my wife even more excited about group boating. but realistically wont happen this year, with all these mentioned ports we have for our summer vacation, tough to drive 14 hrs to loto.
no advice on the vinyl, however my previous owner did get the vinyl from formula for the side panels on my 272.
I would love to go to LOTO, but will probably only get to go if the wife and two little ones come. my buddy waterfoul has shown me the fun times to be had.
it would be awesome to be apart of the formula rondevous as that would be a great place to find fresh water formulas for sale. and get my wife even more excited about group boating. but realistically wont happen this year, with all these mentioned ports we have for our summer vacation, tough to drive 14 hrs to loto.
no advice on the vinyl, however my previous owner did get the vinyl from formula for the side panels on my 272.
