bford1

My dad purchased a 272 LS new in 1983. After 21 years and 1470 hours it still starts righ up and runs well and it is all original. When the 357 came out in 1985 I was 14 and knew I had to have one one day. I'm also a big car nut and an engine guy and about 4 months ago I saw an '85 357 with two B&M blown 454s (540 hp) come on the market in VT. Being I am in TX (2300 miles away) I had my doubts. But, we struck a deal and over Thanksgiving I drove to VT in my F-250 and hauled it back to TX. The boat needs some cabin interior work and a few minor items but overall is in good condition. I did have it surveyed before buying it. But, I have had several questions and thought someone here could help. I talked to a couple of Marinas and Formula but haven't had much help. Sorry for all the questions. And, thanks in advance for the help.

Speed - The boat will run 76 (according to gps) now. But, it will go 50 with no boost. And, it will turn about 5,200-5,300 rpms without any trim at all. The props were recently redone so I hate to replace them. But, it seems to me that with a more aggressive prop I could get more trim at the same rpm and hence more speed. True or no? Also, while the motors are fresh the outdrives are not. Should I look at replacing the TRSs with Bravos? Is there another option? Has anyone ever replaced TRSs with Kaamas or Arnesons? Is that feasible? I only spent $31,000 on the boat and don't want to spend too much additional money on it. (In a few years I am planning on upgrading to a triple screw 419.) But, I would sure like to get 80mph out of the 357.

Size - How does this thing compare size wise to the newer Formulas? My dad's 272 is almost the same size as a new 303 (I've been tied up to one). Is the 357 close to the same size as a new 382? I read that the new 353 was actually like 33' long. Is that true? I've seen a large range of weights for the 357. Like from 8,000 to 14,000 pounds. Anyone weighed their 357?

Accessories - Is there anywhere to buy new items for the boat's interior. Formula was less help than I expected on this. I need new carpet (both inside and out) and I only have two of the three specially sized bottles that go in the little bar area. I also need a a new accessory light for the floor (socket, housing, etc.) one of mine is broken completely off.

How about stress cracks? The boat surveyor didn't see anything major. But, there is some stress cracking near the fuel fill and on the side of the hull. This boat also flexes more than I anticipated. Is the stress cracking something to worry about? Will these boats hold up to an honest 80 mph with all that flexing?

Lastly, that wooden swim platform has got to go. Is there any other option other Extreme Marine's tubular platform? They want $2000 for theirs. I'd like to find a 'glass one off a newer model. But, with the custom exhaust I don't know if it would fit.

Thanks again. I've attached a couple of pics of my newest toy.

Iggy

Congrats on the purchase.
Looks good in pics.

50 mph w/o blowers?
Not sure. But I do think the props you have on it now may be too high in pitch for use w/o the blowers. Take the blowers off and you lose HP and torque.

Swap to Bravo?
I'd look into rebuilding the TRS drives. I believe swapping will require filling the drive cut outs and glass work. Arnesons will cost a fortune. New Kaama's haven't been made for years. Again major glass work will be needed to install either one.

Swim platform?
If a custom tubular type it too pricy and the wood is not to your liking the only choice is to try to find a used one (fiberglass) off another Formula of the same vintage.
Have you looked for a used aluminum platform?

The length on Formulas of that year are measured from bow to stern, w/o the platform (35' 7"). All the new ones include the platform in the claimed LOA.

The interior fabrics and accessories, I doubt you'll find. Formula does not maintain old stocks of fabric or carpet.
The accessory light may be an off the shelf part. Remove it and look for a manufacturers name. I can still find the cockpit courtsey lights for my '88 206 LS in the West Marine catalog.

Fiberglass trouble?
Not my area. I'd imagine stress cracks around the fuel fill might be common.
Are there cracks around the deck hatches?
You say it "flexes more than I anticipated". Where? How? When?

bford1

Thanks Iggy -

The 50 mph is without boost. Then blowers don't mkae boost unless the vacuum goes to 0 (WOT). When at part throttle you get vacuum and not boost. It will run about 50 without getting into the boost or trim. Nail the throttles and it will go from 50 to 70 very, very quickly. But, it will hit the rev limiter (5800) way before you get full trim. Although I still haven't had a chance top really play with it yet.

I haven't had much expereince with the TRS drives. I assumed that since it was an old design something newer would be more efficient. Do you lose much mph with the TRSs?

I'll try the West Marine Catolog.

Thanks again.

Iggy

I don't know much about the TRS drives, but several members here do. Maybe they can answer your question.

mopower

I've always heard that TRS outdrives are pretty tough. They came with Merc or BorgWarner transmissions. The B/W was the better one. Mercs trans. were the weakest link. TRS set ups are a little heavier that the rest due to the separate trans. and they do cost you some HP. But the drive itself is probably tougher than a Bravo in my opinion (for what thats worth)

Good luck with it

Formula Outlaw

"Mo" is right about the drives. The TRS are a little stronger than the Bravos and will take more horsepower. You might try a nose cone on them. I know two guys who run TRS and they installed Hydromotive Nose Cones and gained about 3mph I think. Call Hydromotive and ask them. They'll be straight with you. They'll tell you exactly what you could expect, and they will hit it right on the head. Outlaw
p.s. CONGRATULATIONS

Iggy

I was thinlingh about the fact youm hit the rev limiters before it's fully trimed up.
Sound like you need more pitch in the props. Can't say how much though.
Maybe you're experiencing blowout at that speed.

RedDog382

If you need cockpit carpet, check with R&R Textiles. I have their number at home if you need it. I think they may have been the original supplier and do a great job. Just send a pattern in contractors plastic. You mentioned a triple 419 down the road. Better check with your insurance provider first. I was considering the same earlier this year until I checked with my State Farm agent. I have been with them 24 years with ZERO claims ... they will not write coverage on this boat, but insured the 382 I purchased. Other companies quoted me $3000+ for 6 mos active use on a 419.

Also, looking at your trailer, the bunks need to be longer. The way this boat sits on the trailer, you can (if you have not already) develop a hook in the bottom of the boat. The bunks should support and extend beyond the transom.

bford1

Thanks very much for the information and your opinions guys. It's nice to be here.

ApachePete

The 357 with Kaama I had flexed like crazy. Ripped the screws out of the side of the dash repeatedly.

The dash kind of "floated" free from the rest of the boat. I never saw any cracks in the hull, however, and it always seemed to be structurally sound overall.

After jumping waves, the cabin interior always ended up on the cabin floor.

Scott Porter told me I was "too rough' on it. Hmm.

I replaced the KAMA 425's with Baker Engineering 525's, but never saw much over 75 . . . if that.

So I traded it to Everglades on a 41 Apache.

It "flexed" too, which resulted in many cracks on/around the instrument panel. Then the fuel tank under the cabin floor split, too.

Ralph Martin and Marc McManus told me that I wasn't using the boat as the builder intended (Hmm), and that I should get a 41 Apache race boat.

I did.

It NEVER flexed (although it did crack from the rub-rail to the keel in a race in Chicago). And then it blew-up, but that's another story.

So I went back to Formula in '99 with a 382.

It does not flex.

It has not cracked.

The interior has never fallen to the floor.

It hasn't exploded.

It's a great boat.

In retrospect, I think the 357 was/is a great boat, too.

But it was never intended to be a race boat, and it was not designed to run in the 80's.

That fact that yours is still sound is testimony to it's quality . . . if treated properly.

Finally, I bet that the bottom has developed a pretty nasty hook if it's spent any time on that trailer. Easy to check, a bit more difficult to fix, if you care to.

Good luck!