why do Fountain hulls leak ?
10-14-2011, 12:41 PM
#1
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why do Fountain hulls leak ?
First, I'm not a Fountain or RF basher, I'm unsure about the current status of both place and I am a Fountain owner for 13 years and I'd buy a 42' in a heart beat if all the planets aligned properly.
Moving on...................
Reading the thread and associated photos abpout rub rail replacement, various leaks and the recent rotten stringer thread on a 47' has me questioning Fountain build quality and or design.
A lot of owners suggest leaving a boat in the water is bad and leads to these type problems but why, many boats sit in the water for long extended periods of time without experiencing these problems.
Is part of the problem due to the angle Fountains sit at and the amount of aft hull being underwater ? This situation has many through hull fasteners and drain/intakes to be exposed to water intrusion but other boats have a similar situation.
When you have a rub rail and hull to deck joint almost at water level the builder damn well better get the design and assembly and materials used correct.
With the 47' thats having stringer repair the RF people state the original design wasn't good and different materials are used for repair procedures.
There have been endless discussions about water under the floor in the cabin area.
What do you think ?
ed
Moving on...................
Reading the thread and associated photos abpout rub rail replacement, various leaks and the recent rotten stringer thread on a 47' has me questioning Fountain build quality and or design.
A lot of owners suggest leaving a boat in the water is bad and leads to these type problems but why, many boats sit in the water for long extended periods of time without experiencing these problems.
Is part of the problem due to the angle Fountains sit at and the amount of aft hull being underwater ? This situation has many through hull fasteners and drain/intakes to be exposed to water intrusion but other boats have a similar situation.
When you have a rub rail and hull to deck joint almost at water level the builder damn well better get the design and assembly and materials used correct.
With the 47' thats having stringer repair the RF people state the original design wasn't good and different materials are used for repair procedures.
There have been endless discussions about water under the floor in the cabin area.
What do you think ?
ed
10-14-2011, 01:14 PM
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Every single one of us can get better at whatever we do.
We can't focus on improving everything, so we focus on improving what is most important to us.
Reggie has been undeniably successful in two areas: 1) speed, and 2) cost.
His unwavering commitment to test, test, and test some more has resulted in everyone having faster and more efficient boats. Everyone, because all the other companies respond to Fountains advances. I don't mean Reggie invented stepped hulls or pad bottoms, as one can trivially find boats that were built long before Reggie was born that exhibit these characteristics. But it takes more than just an idea, it takes scientifically exploring the possibilities to discover what actually works, not just what seems like it might work.
His focus on ensuring value for his customers is similar to that pursued by, say, Sir William Lyon of Jaguar car company. There are higher quality boats for much more, but there probably are not higher quality boats for less money.
Part of that focus on value leaves the opportunity for low quality to creep in from time to time. Not just for Fountain, but everyone who makes anything.
There are areas where its difficult to ensure the deck to hull joint is fully waterproof, and the worst problem is the aft edge of the swim step: its not surprising that many people have some leaks there. Remember, it takes hardly anything at all for small amounts of water to get in: one screw that does not have enough sealant will do the trick.
On my boat, there is something else that lets water in: my boat has a self draining cockpit, so there are cockpit scuppers that connect to hoses that lead to through hulls. However, the space the scuppers fit into is very constrained, and the scuppers themselves are plastic. Its very difficult to install the scuppers without cracking them. Once cracked, water leaks past the ball check valve, and into the bilge. As the water in the bilge slowly fills up, the rate of water leak increases. If the bilge pump does not pump adequately, the boat will sink. That has happened on at least one sistership to my boat, and nearly happened to my boat.
The price of the scuppers is very low, like $5. Its not possible to simply see the crack in a cracked scupper, as the crack is below the deck, out of sight. The crack happens without sound, or certainly less sound than the sound of the scupper slipping firmly into the hole in the deck, so the only way to tell if the scupper is broken is by specifically looking underneath the deck: a scope or dentist mirror is required, with a small flashlight, when the boat is in the water.
Of all the boats I've ever been on, they all leak somewhere: hatches, stanchion bases, hull-deck joint, windows, installed gear, instrument wiring, etc.
On this board, we speak plainly about issues, because we feel we are in this together. We don't speak plainly about issues to bash the brand we are so invested in. We like these boats!
We can't focus on improving everything, so we focus on improving what is most important to us.
Reggie has been undeniably successful in two areas: 1) speed, and 2) cost.
His unwavering commitment to test, test, and test some more has resulted in everyone having faster and more efficient boats. Everyone, because all the other companies respond to Fountains advances. I don't mean Reggie invented stepped hulls or pad bottoms, as one can trivially find boats that were built long before Reggie was born that exhibit these characteristics. But it takes more than just an idea, it takes scientifically exploring the possibilities to discover what actually works, not just what seems like it might work.
His focus on ensuring value for his customers is similar to that pursued by, say, Sir William Lyon of Jaguar car company. There are higher quality boats for much more, but there probably are not higher quality boats for less money.
Part of that focus on value leaves the opportunity for low quality to creep in from time to time. Not just for Fountain, but everyone who makes anything.
There are areas where its difficult to ensure the deck to hull joint is fully waterproof, and the worst problem is the aft edge of the swim step: its not surprising that many people have some leaks there. Remember, it takes hardly anything at all for small amounts of water to get in: one screw that does not have enough sealant will do the trick.
On my boat, there is something else that lets water in: my boat has a self draining cockpit, so there are cockpit scuppers that connect to hoses that lead to through hulls. However, the space the scuppers fit into is very constrained, and the scuppers themselves are plastic. Its very difficult to install the scuppers without cracking them. Once cracked, water leaks past the ball check valve, and into the bilge. As the water in the bilge slowly fills up, the rate of water leak increases. If the bilge pump does not pump adequately, the boat will sink. That has happened on at least one sistership to my boat, and nearly happened to my boat.
The price of the scuppers is very low, like $5. Its not possible to simply see the crack in a cracked scupper, as the crack is below the deck, out of sight. The crack happens without sound, or certainly less sound than the sound of the scupper slipping firmly into the hole in the deck, so the only way to tell if the scupper is broken is by specifically looking underneath the deck: a scope or dentist mirror is required, with a small flashlight, when the boat is in the water.
Of all the boats I've ever been on, they all leak somewhere: hatches, stanchion bases, hull-deck joint, windows, installed gear, instrument wiring, etc.
On this board, we speak plainly about issues, because we feel we are in this together. We don't speak plainly about issues to bash the brand we are so invested in. We like these boats!
10-14-2011, 01:26 PM
#3
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iTrader: (1)
Any boat can have water in it for any number of reasons. The bilges in my 38 Fountain are bone dry. Often tmes the cause of wet bilges isn't a leaky hull but rather a leaking water hose from any number of sources within the boat - or a leaky boat cover. The problem arise when the water is allowed to sit in the boat because the plug is in place and it cant drain.
It isnt a problem specific to fountain.
It isnt a problem specific to fountain.
10-14-2011, 01:42 PM
#4
Registered
Thread Starter
Every single one of us can get better at whatever we do.
We can't focus on improving everything, so we focus on improving what is most important to us.
Reggie has been undeniably successful in two areas: 1) speed, and 2) cost.
His unwavering commitment to test, test, and test some more has resulted in everyone having faster and more efficient boats. Everyone, because all the other companies respond to Fountains advances. I don't mean Reggie invented stepped hulls or pad bottoms, as one can trivially find boats that were built long before Reggie was born that exhibit these characteristics. But it takes more than just an idea, it takes scientifically exploring the possibilities to discover what actually works, not just what seems like it might work.
His focus on ensuring value for his customers is similar to that pursued by, say, Sir William Lyon of Jaguar car company. There are higher quality boats for much more, but there probably are not higher quality boats for less money.
Part of that focus on value leaves the opportunity for low quality to creep in from time to time. Not just for Fountain, but everyone who makes anything.
There are areas where its difficult to ensure the deck to hull joint is fully waterproof, and the worst problem is the aft edge of the swim step: its not surprising that many people have some leaks there. Remember, it takes hardly anything at all for small amounts of water to get in: one screw that does not have enough sealant will do the trick.
On my boat, there is something else that lets water in: my boat has a self draining cockpit, so there are cockpit scuppers that connect to hoses that lead to through hulls. However, the space the scuppers fit into is very constrained, and the scuppers themselves are plastic. Its very difficult to install the scuppers without cracking them. Once cracked, water leaks past the ball check valve, and into the bilge. As the water in the bilge slowly fills up, the rate of water leak increases. If the bilge pump does not pump adequately, the boat will sink. That has happened on at least one sistership to my boat, and nearly happened to my boat.
The price of the scuppers is very low, like $5. Its not possible to simply see the crack in a cracked scupper, as the crack is below the deck, out of sight. The crack happens without sound, or certainly less sound than the sound of the scupper slipping firmly into the hole in the deck, so the only way to tell if the scupper is broken is by specifically looking underneath the deck: a scope or dentist mirror is required, with a small flashlight, when the boat is in the water.
Of all the boats I've ever been on, they all leak somewhere: hatches, stanchion bases, hull-deck joint, windows, installed gear, instrument wiring, etc.
On this board, we speak plainly about issues, because we feel we are in this together. We don't speak plainly about issues to bash the brand we are so invested in. We like these boats!
We can't focus on improving everything, so we focus on improving what is most important to us.
Reggie has been undeniably successful in two areas: 1) speed, and 2) cost.
His unwavering commitment to test, test, and test some more has resulted in everyone having faster and more efficient boats. Everyone, because all the other companies respond to Fountains advances. I don't mean Reggie invented stepped hulls or pad bottoms, as one can trivially find boats that were built long before Reggie was born that exhibit these characteristics. But it takes more than just an idea, it takes scientifically exploring the possibilities to discover what actually works, not just what seems like it might work.
His focus on ensuring value for his customers is similar to that pursued by, say, Sir William Lyon of Jaguar car company. There are higher quality boats for much more, but there probably are not higher quality boats for less money.
Part of that focus on value leaves the opportunity for low quality to creep in from time to time. Not just for Fountain, but everyone who makes anything.
There are areas where its difficult to ensure the deck to hull joint is fully waterproof, and the worst problem is the aft edge of the swim step: its not surprising that many people have some leaks there. Remember, it takes hardly anything at all for small amounts of water to get in: one screw that does not have enough sealant will do the trick.
On my boat, there is something else that lets water in: my boat has a self draining cockpit, so there are cockpit scuppers that connect to hoses that lead to through hulls. However, the space the scuppers fit into is very constrained, and the scuppers themselves are plastic. Its very difficult to install the scuppers without cracking them. Once cracked, water leaks past the ball check valve, and into the bilge. As the water in the bilge slowly fills up, the rate of water leak increases. If the bilge pump does not pump adequately, the boat will sink. That has happened on at least one sistership to my boat, and nearly happened to my boat.
The price of the scuppers is very low, like $5. Its not possible to simply see the crack in a cracked scupper, as the crack is below the deck, out of sight. The crack happens without sound, or certainly less sound than the sound of the scupper slipping firmly into the hole in the deck, so the only way to tell if the scupper is broken is by specifically looking underneath the deck: a scope or dentist mirror is required, with a small flashlight, when the boat is in the water.
Of all the boats I've ever been on, they all leak somewhere: hatches, stanchion bases, hull-deck joint, windows, installed gear, instrument wiring, etc.
On this board, we speak plainly about issues, because we feel we are in this together. We don't speak plainly about issues to bash the brand we are so invested in. We like these boats!
10-14-2011, 06:41 PM
#6
Registered
First, I'm not a Fountain or RF basher, I'm unsure about the current status of both place and I am a Fountain owner for 13 years and I'd buy a 42' in a heart beat if all the planets aligned properly.
Moving on...................
Reading the thread and associated photos abpout rub rail replacement, various leaks and the recent rotten stringer thread on a 47' has me questioning Fountain build quality and or design.
A lot of owners suggest leaving a boat in the water is bad and leads to these type problems but why, many boats sit in the water for long extended periods of time without experiencing these problems.
Is part of the problem due to the angle Fountains sit at and the amount of aft hull being underwater ? This situation has many through hull fasteners and drain/intakes to be exposed to water intrusion but other boats have a similar situation.
When you have a rub rail and hull to deck joint almost at water level the builder damn well better get the design and assembly and materials used correct.
With the 47' thats having stringer repair the RF people state the original design wasn't good and different materials are used for repair procedures.
There have been endless discussions about water under the floor in the cabin area.
What do you think ?
ed
Moving on...................
Reading the thread and associated photos abpout rub rail replacement, various leaks and the recent rotten stringer thread on a 47' has me questioning Fountain build quality and or design.
A lot of owners suggest leaving a boat in the water is bad and leads to these type problems but why, many boats sit in the water for long extended periods of time without experiencing these problems.
Is part of the problem due to the angle Fountains sit at and the amount of aft hull being underwater ? This situation has many through hull fasteners and drain/intakes to be exposed to water intrusion but other boats have a similar situation.
When you have a rub rail and hull to deck joint almost at water level the builder damn well better get the design and assembly and materials used correct.
With the 47' thats having stringer repair the RF people state the original design wasn't good and different materials are used for repair procedures.
There have been endless discussions about water under the floor in the cabin area.
What do you think ?
ed
Most people run a automatic bilge to take care of it.. This will not get all the water from the hull.. That water will sit there forever unless you fix the problem or take the boat out of the water
10-14-2011, 06:53 PM
#7
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A Boat should not leak!! I dont care who the manufacturer is!! that being said if their is a mechanical failure that is one issue a leaking hull is another..i see 40 year old chris crafts and30 year old pro-lines (mine) at my marina that dont leak..so why are we making excuses for other maufacturers,, maybe thats why that are out of business...
10-14-2011, 06:58 PM
#8
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My Velocity leaked, was due to a little neglect when built. Neither of my Fountains have had any issue, and they sit in the water all season. If I wash it down with a hose it will run in the side vents, If I leave it out in the rain some gets in thru the vents and likely thru the cover.
Far as the under step area in the cabin, I've been lucky, no issue. One does need to realize that if water does enter the foreward area of a stepped hull it can not, in any manner, run / drain to the rear. Just can not happen, period. One just needs to be aware of that little quirk of a stepped hull. Check the area, deal with it if there is a problem before it causes a real problem. I will admit mine have always been in a boathouse in season and inside storage out of season.
Far as the under step area in the cabin, I've been lucky, no issue. One does need to realize that if water does enter the foreward area of a stepped hull it can not, in any manner, run / drain to the rear. Just can not happen, period. One just needs to be aware of that little quirk of a stepped hull. Check the area, deal with it if there is a problem before it causes a real problem. I will admit mine have always been in a boathouse in season and inside storage out of season.
10-14-2011, 08:00 PM
#9
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My Velocity leaked, was due to a little neglect when built. Neither of my Fountains have had any issue, and they sit in the water all season. If I wash it down with a hose it will run in the side vents, If I leave it out in the rain some gets in thru the vents and likely thru the cover.
Far as the under step area in the cabin, I've been lucky, no issue. One does need to realize that if water does enter the foreward area of a stepped hull it can not, in any manner, run / drain to the rear. Just can not happen, period. One just needs to be aware of that little quirk of a stepped hull. Check the area, deal with it if there is a problem before it causes a real problem. I will admit mine have always been in a boathouse in season and inside storage out of season.
Far as the under step area in the cabin, I've been lucky, no issue. One does need to realize that if water does enter the foreward area of a stepped hull it can not, in any manner, run / drain to the rear. Just can not happen, period. One just needs to be aware of that little quirk of a stepped hull. Check the area, deal with it if there is a problem before it causes a real problem. I will admit mine have always been in a boathouse in season and inside storage out of season.
