cant beat a deal like this
11-26-2005, 12:04 PM
#81
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
It is unfortunate that every boat builder and dealer has to deal with these issues all the time.
As I see it........you want your boat fixed...... They offered to fix it....... You have declined to have them fix it.................. Your on your own!!.
I think it absolutely unreasonable to think any dealer is just gonna write checks to have motors fixed that their mechanics said checked out fine without at least the opportunity to see the motors for themselves. Even more unreasonable is it to think a dealer that has a full service shop with many capable techs on payroll would pay retail shop rate and retail parts price for someone to fix it locally. I'm sorry to say this all smacks of an unreasonable customer.
Let me ask you this. If and when your motors let go again and you've "lost trust" in the guy that's doing your motors now is he going to be on the hook to pay someone else to do the work?
I have seen customers that wanted to turn a stress crack into a new custom paint job, and i have PERSONALLY had customers ask me to do that crap with warranty and insurance work. Tell them it 10 times worse than it is and it will cover all the custom work they want done.
I'm not in any way saying that is what is happening here but it does happen ALL the time. NO business in their right mind will just write checks to whoever claims they have an issue or makes a fuss on a website. I don't understand why otherwise reasonable people become unreasonable when it becomes THEIR issue.
Unfortunately plumbers, roofers, stock brokers, car salesmen, checkers at Walmart etc don't have a website to be smeared on.
As I see it........you want your boat fixed...... They offered to fix it....... You have declined to have them fix it.................. Your on your own!!.
I think it absolutely unreasonable to think any dealer is just gonna write checks to have motors fixed that their mechanics said checked out fine without at least the opportunity to see the motors for themselves. Even more unreasonable is it to think a dealer that has a full service shop with many capable techs on payroll would pay retail shop rate and retail parts price for someone to fix it locally. I'm sorry to say this all smacks of an unreasonable customer.
Let me ask you this. If and when your motors let go again and you've "lost trust" in the guy that's doing your motors now is he going to be on the hook to pay someone else to do the work?
I have seen customers that wanted to turn a stress crack into a new custom paint job, and i have PERSONALLY had customers ask me to do that crap with warranty and insurance work. Tell them it 10 times worse than it is and it will cover all the custom work they want done.
I'm not in any way saying that is what is happening here but it does happen ALL the time. NO business in their right mind will just write checks to whoever claims they have an issue or makes a fuss on a website. I don't understand why otherwise reasonable people become unreasonable when it becomes THEIR issue.
Unfortunately plumbers, roofers, stock brokers, car salesmen, checkers at Walmart etc don't have a website to be smeared on.
11-26-2005, 12:16 PM
#82
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
Its pretty easy to be on LCM's side, and understanding, unless you have gotten burned big time at least once. I have had the similiar problem happen to me, so I know how bad it sucks.
About bringing the boat back to the marina 1900 miles away, the only way I as the buyer would do that is if the dealer paid the transport. If in fact they false advertised the motors, why should the buyer have to put up with these problems. Not only is his boat all screwed up, now they want him to tow it back 1900 miles?
I would think it is only fair for LCM to stand behind their sale, and the new owner should bring it to a certified merc dealer who specializes in merc racing motors. As big as LCM is, Im sure they must have a relationship with some merc engine builders near the new owner.
This man bought a 2004 boat, and Im sure he paid a pretty penny for it. Now, a broken bilge pump, or a bad alternator, Id say no big deal. But, if we are talking 20k in repair work needed and he didnt get to run this boat more than a few hours, lets just say that I personally wouldnt be here, Id be waitin at LCM at 5 am for the doors to open.
Personally, Ive never dealt with LCM. I have been to their site, and it seems that they sell some nice, high end boats, a big facility, probably a knowledgeable performance sales staff. That is the #1 reason I would consider buying from them. Well known. But, if I continue to hear stories like these, Im staying away.
Jeff Murray, you say you talked to the guy at LCM, who you have done business with, who you are obviuosly tryin gto protect his name by gathering the facts, which is good, and I would do the same. However, stating that the man at LCM refererred to the buyer as an a$$hole, is a total turn off. Not very professional. If I got burned that bad, then I read that now I was being called an a$$hole for wanting some reconciliation! How can you expect the guy to bring his boat back for repairs after that statement?
Im sure there is probably more to this than we all know, on both sides, what was represented, what promises or agreements were made, etc. But in the end, this man has a broken boat. Hopefully, all will come to an agreement, and his boat will be up and running, and LCM's name will stay a green light for me when it comes to looking for a top gun next year.
About bringing the boat back to the marina 1900 miles away, the only way I as the buyer would do that is if the dealer paid the transport. If in fact they false advertised the motors, why should the buyer have to put up with these problems. Not only is his boat all screwed up, now they want him to tow it back 1900 miles?
I would think it is only fair for LCM to stand behind their sale, and the new owner should bring it to a certified merc dealer who specializes in merc racing motors. As big as LCM is, Im sure they must have a relationship with some merc engine builders near the new owner.
This man bought a 2004 boat, and Im sure he paid a pretty penny for it. Now, a broken bilge pump, or a bad alternator, Id say no big deal. But, if we are talking 20k in repair work needed and he didnt get to run this boat more than a few hours, lets just say that I personally wouldnt be here, Id be waitin at LCM at 5 am for the doors to open.
Personally, Ive never dealt with LCM. I have been to their site, and it seems that they sell some nice, high end boats, a big facility, probably a knowledgeable performance sales staff. That is the #1 reason I would consider buying from them. Well known. But, if I continue to hear stories like these, Im staying away.
Jeff Murray, you say you talked to the guy at LCM, who you have done business with, who you are obviuosly tryin gto protect his name by gathering the facts, which is good, and I would do the same. However, stating that the man at LCM refererred to the buyer as an a$$hole, is a total turn off. Not very professional. If I got burned that bad, then I read that now I was being called an a$$hole for wanting some reconciliation! How can you expect the guy to bring his boat back for repairs after that statement?
Im sure there is probably more to this than we all know, on both sides, what was represented, what promises or agreements were made, etc. But in the end, this man has a broken boat. Hopefully, all will come to an agreement, and his boat will be up and running, and LCM's name will stay a green light for me when it comes to looking for a top gun next year.
11-26-2005, 12:19 PM
#83
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
It was Edwards Advice that got me to hire a surveyor on the westcoast and the guy waved me off the prospective purchase very quicky,as the stringers and bulkheads were very wet.
money well spent
In the Old Donzi i just sold, I insisted the buyer have an inspection done. I represented the boat very fairly, but I wanted him to have a neutral 3rd party opinion, my opinion is honest, but I have a boat to sell.
I learned it from a previous prospective buyer a month before who on the seatrial said, the oil pressure at idle is 25 lbs and the needle shakes ("so that means the bearings are burning up"), and there is an oil leak so the rear seal is leaking, and drove a long way and didn't buy the boat.
It was so unnecessary since the boat was fine but in the abscence of a impartial inspection, he went in the entire paranoid direction.
I offered to have the boat inspected after the fact to clear his concerns but he was freaked out and didn't come back to the table.
It was so unneccessary
The oil pressure is normal at idle and the needle shakes as the gauge is electric, I didn't think there was any oil leak but the inspection showed it was leaking from the dipstick tube that needed a spot of RTV. I knew it wasn't a front or rear seal.
My new buyer has the boat a month and is very happy, the deal went smooth, deposit, inspection, purchase, he knew what he was getting and feels fine with it.
on one sour note. it looks like the inspectors reversed the plugwires after the inspection compression test and performance is down a bit but hopefully that will get straightened out this weekend.
The buyer is still comfortable.
money well spent
In the Old Donzi i just sold, I insisted the buyer have an inspection done. I represented the boat very fairly, but I wanted him to have a neutral 3rd party opinion, my opinion is honest, but I have a boat to sell.
I learned it from a previous prospective buyer a month before who on the seatrial said, the oil pressure at idle is 25 lbs and the needle shakes ("so that means the bearings are burning up"), and there is an oil leak so the rear seal is leaking, and drove a long way and didn't buy the boat.
It was so unnecessary since the boat was fine but in the abscence of a impartial inspection, he went in the entire paranoid direction.
I offered to have the boat inspected after the fact to clear his concerns but he was freaked out and didn't come back to the table.
It was so unneccessary
The oil pressure is normal at idle and the needle shakes as the gauge is electric, I didn't think there was any oil leak but the inspection showed it was leaking from the dipstick tube that needed a spot of RTV. I knew it wasn't a front or rear seal.
My new buyer has the boat a month and is very happy, the deal went smooth, deposit, inspection, purchase, he knew what he was getting and feels fine with it.
on one sour note. it looks like the inspectors reversed the plugwires after the inspection compression test and performance is down a bit but hopefully that will get straightened out this weekend.
The buyer is still comfortable.
Originally Posted by Edward R. Cozzi
Attn: you used boat buyers:
Stop rolling the dice when you're spending your hard-earned.
For the price of a round-trip ticket and my normal survey and sea trial fees, I will pack-up my moisture meter, compression and leak-down equipment and ECM scanner and tap on my many years of experience with our kind of boat to make sure you get what you're paying for.
Many times the money I save you is far more than you spend with me.
Buying a boat is an emotional experience. It must, however, be purchased with one's brain rather than the heart. Take advantage of me...I like it!
Ed
Stop rolling the dice when you're spending your hard-earned.
For the price of a round-trip ticket and my normal survey and sea trial fees, I will pack-up my moisture meter, compression and leak-down equipment and ECM scanner and tap on my many years of experience with our kind of boat to make sure you get what you're paying for.
Many times the money I save you is far more than you spend with me.
Buying a boat is an emotional experience. It must, however, be purchased with one's brain rather than the heart. Take advantage of me...I like it!
Ed
Last edited by Dregsz; 11-26-2005 at 12:37 PM.
11-26-2005, 12:54 PM
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER
Another thought;
If the problems are actually the motors, what if the new owner pulled the engines, and crated them, and ship them back to LCM for repair? Seems reasonable on both ends.
If the problems are actually the motors, what if the new owner pulled the engines, and crated them, and ship them back to LCM for repair? Seems reasonable on both ends.
they could tell me they did all kinds of stuff to these engines only to find they used sub quality parts to save money. i am not saying that's what happens but just my fear!
guy's, here are pix of the imput shafts off the superchargers. one almost fell out when the engine was started the first time.
now if these are this bad guess how bad the rest of the engine is
11-26-2005, 01:01 PM
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
Sorry for your problems but if you don't give lcm the chance to fix the problem then it becomes your problem, not theirs. Randy has always delt fairly with me and if you would have let them make it right, you might be boating. Biggest lesson learned is to sea trial and survey any used boat. Best of luck in your quest. NK
11-26-2005, 01:03 PM
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
this got by their checkout team and i found it once i was home, and much much more. that's why i dont trust them. they did send me those parts but the engines are worn out. i pulled a head and intake to find good patterns of wear but wear all the same. more than 49 hours worth and then some. i even asked them to just pay for parts and i'ld cover the labor so i'm not being the rude unruly customer im being portrayed as. i just want a fair and reasonable ending to this!
11-26-2005, 01:25 PM
#88
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
in all fairness you cant expect LCM just to hand you a wad of money. they have offered to repair the boat. That's as fair as it gets. Not taking anyone side but me being in business myself, i fell i should have first opportunity to fix a problem if one arises.
11-26-2005, 01:35 PM
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
If LCM advertized these engines as only having 49 hours on them, I wouldn't have any confidence in them either. I don't think a Merc 600 blower would start falling apart at 49 hours.
To me, that's the big problem I'd have. If I bought them with no idea how many hours were on them, and they fell apart, I'd just suck it up and eat the cost, but that doesn't look like the case here. Tell me, do those parts look like something from an engine with 49 hours on it????
To me, that's the big problem I'd have. If I bought them with no idea how many hours were on them, and they fell apart, I'd just suck it up and eat the cost, but that doesn't look like the case here. Tell me, do those parts look like something from an engine with 49 hours on it????
11-26-2005, 02:40 PM
#90
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Re: cant beat a deal like this
And some people wonder why used car and boat dealers have a bad name. The boat should have been surveyed and sea trialed. That mistake is on the customer. The pic of an hour meter with 49 hours is the type of thing National Marine was and did do. We all saw what happened to them. Is LCM next in line for the big fall into oblivion? Joe Murray
