I agree, especially the tabs. I ALWAYS know where my tabs are!Originally Posted by thisistank
You need to mark on your drive/tab indicator the neutral point. This will help you immensly.
I agree, especially the tabs. I ALWAYS know where my tabs are!Originally Posted by thisistank
Yep, the bow pointing toward the sky!Originally Posted by [email protected]
I just gotta say that Apache video was the $hit!! Thought those crazy mofo's were going to flip at the end
Sorry for the hijack.......proceed with discussion
Is this it ? Is this what I work for...
4x4 is PRICELESS when you are slipping down a ramp backwards with no help in sight !
[QUOTE=noboat][[email protected] make sense that trimming down will make this type of launch less probable, but where is the balance point?[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by noboatOriginally Posted by thisistank
The Outrage replaced my model the Revenge; same hull just different deck styling, the latter version is nicer looking. If people are looking for a good center console with decent rough water capabilities in the 22 ft. range check out an Outrage.Originally Posted by [email protected]
The 22 Revenge cuddy; has a tendency to be bow heavy, forward center of gravity. They do fly and lands very nice if done properly, right trim, and shift the center of gravity more towards the stern via throttles. Not exactly sure how to explain the technique; other than if you tried it in another 22ft boat, you may recreate that famous vertical Super boat (I think) picture! The balance point is dif. On each model and make of boat, sometimes even models using the same hull design will require different technique. My Revenge was a hammy down from my Dad. He bought it new and without a sea trial, dealer because it was in the water already, plus we lived on a beach handed us the key’s and off we went. In defense of the sales guy, we happened to arrive at the marina by boat on a day trip. So the guy just assumed experience they are boaters. Think one of the things sellers even if private should tell people even if they are boat owners, little things that may help them figure a basic technique for that boat so they don't have to learn the edge the hard way. Insurance rates might go down if, less accidents occur. The balance point on the Revenge cuddy, is going to be a lot different than the Revenge center console with no cuddy.
The best defense for not stuffing it, is figure out the center of gravity:
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NASA wrote: The center of gravity is a geometric property of any object. The center of gravity is the average location of the weight of an object. We can completely describe the motion of any object through space in terms of the translation of the center of gravity of the object from one place to another, and the rotation of the object about its center of gravity if it is free to rotate. If the object is confined to rotate about some other point, like a hinge, we can still describe its motion. In flight, both airplanes and rockets rotate about their centers of gravity. A kite, on the other hand, rotates about the bridle point. But the trim of a kite still depends on the location of the center of gravity relative to the bridle point, because for every object the weight always acts through the center of gravity.
The center of gravity is a geometric property of any object. The center of gravity is the average location of the weight of an object. We can completely describe the motion of any object through space in terms of the translation of the center of gravity of the object from one place to another, and the rotation of the object about its center of gravity if it is free to rotate. If the object is confined to rotate about some other point, like a hinge, we can still describe its motion. In flight, both airplanes and rockets rotate about their centers of gravity. A kite, on the other hand, rotates about the bridle point. But the trim of a kite still depends on the location of the center of gravity relative to the bridle point, because for every object the weight always acts through the center of gravity.
Determining the center of gravity is very important for any flying object. How do engineers determine the location of the center of gravity for an aircraft which they are designing?
In general, determining the center of gravity (cg) is a complicated procedure because the mass (and weight) may not be uniformly distributed throughout the object. The general case requires the use of calculus which we will discuss at the bottom of this page. If the mass is uniformly distributed, the problem is greatly simplified. If the object has a line (or plane) of symmetry, the cg lies on the line of symmetry. For a solid block of uniform material, the center of gravity is simply at the average location of the ^M physical dimensions. (For a rectangular block, 50 X 20 X 10, the center of gravity is at the point (25,10, 5) ). For a triangle of height h, the cg is at h/3, and for a semi-circle of radius r, the cg is at (4*r/(3*pi)) where pi is ratio of the circumference of the circle to the diameter. There are tables of the location of the center of gravity for many simple shapes in math and science books. The tables were generated by using the equation from calculus shown on the slide.
For a general shaped object, there is a simple mechanical way to determine the center of gravity:
1. If we just balance the object using a string or an edge, the point at which the object is balanced is the center of gravity. (Just like balancing a pencil on your finger!)
2. Another, more complicated way, is a two step method shown on the slide. In Step 1, you hang the object from any point and you drop a weighted string from the same point. Draw a line on the object along the string. For Step 2, repeat the procedure from another point on the object You now have two lines drawn on the object which intersect. The center of gravity is the point where the lines intersect. This procedure works well for irregularly shaped objects that are hard to balance.
If the mass of the object is not uniformly distributed, we can characterize the mass distribution by a function w(x) which indicates that the weight is some function of distance x from a reference line. If we can determine the form of the function, there are methods to perform a calculus integration of the equation. We will use the symbols "S[ ]dx" to denote the integration of a continuous function. Then the center of gravity can be determined from:
cg = (S[x * w(x)]dx) / (S[w(x)]dx)
If we don't know the actual functional form, we can numerically integrate the equation using a spreadsheet by dividing the distance into a number of small distance segments and determining the average value of the mass (or weight) over that small segment. Taking the sum of the average value times the distance times the distance segment divided by the sum of the average value times the distance segment will produce the center of gravity.
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I plan on going to Tres Martin more for interest, but, I also support his efforts in making better and therefore safer go fast driver's.
Last edited by Zudnic; 07-25-2006 at 08:42 PM.
Originally Posted by Panther
WHAT TABS?????
We had none!!! We discovered a electrical problem on the Team Apache Boat at the start of the race. That’s why we started 15 minutes late. We had a lot of time and water to make up… Every time I touch the trim tabs or the drives. The engines would lose power. Too much voltage needed to run all the trim motors with shorted batteries. So I set all the trims to a “happy medium general type setting” and told the crew to hold on baby!!! We are going for it..
Surprisingly we finished only of few seconds behind the first boat in spite of the spine and wound up in second place UIM world Champions 1985
Ahhh the good old days
Bobby Saccenti
Last edited by Bob Saccenti; 07-25-2006 at 09:03 PM.
Thaswhatimtalkinbout!Originally Posted by Bob Saccenti
AWESOME JOB!!!
Very cool Bob! Haven't spoken to you in a while, the Apache has been running great this summer. With the drive problems squared away I've been able to put the boat through its paces!Originally Posted by Bob Saccenti
I'll give you a call soon!
Frank
Geronimo!!
Chicken?......... no way....... I can remember going out to Anacapa Island one time and it was so sh!tty I couldn't even get up on plane without hammering so hard I thought the stringers were going to snap. It isn't so much the size of the waves in the Santa Barbara channel... it's how close they are. Try 4 foot waves that are 8 feet apart. Further south in the Santa Monica bay there can be gentle swells, round the point and start heading north and it gets nasty fast.Originally Posted by BajaRunner
WOW! The man himself speaks. Thanks for the insight Bob. That was awesome. I read that the Team Apache boat was lighter than the Warpath boat and that is one of the reasons it was so loose when the Warpath boat ran so wet. Any truth to that? Or if the tabs were working in Team Apache it would've been running the same as Warpath? Both great jobs by you by the way. Just awesome!Originally Posted by Bob Saccenti