Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
10-31-2006, 09:24 PM
#191
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
I believe Reggie could actually be helping me out, in this case. These are stellar numbers indeed for a 35' V-bottom and congratulations are in order for sure. His competitors will definitely have their work cut out for them.
I, like Marginmn, also wonder about the margin of error available in this type of package for the average consumer who may at times use a little too much wheel input or hit the wrong side of the trim switch for a couple seconds by mistake. Hopefully this wasn't just an all out attempt for top speed only with little margin for error. Thorough testing and unbiased reporting hopefully will provide the answers.
As most can tell, by my screen name and avatar, I currently prefer cats. I don't dislike V-bottoms for any particular reason, I just prefer cats from a performance standpoint, but for the pleasure boater, they have two major drawbacks compared to the Vee's. Cabin space and trailering. (if over 8'-6" wide) It'd be nice to be able to bang my favorite girl without bumping my head or my azz constantly or simply be able to throw out the anchor and spend the night if I decide to get too hammered to go home. That's the big advantage of the Vees.
Now I've ridden in both cats and Vees at a 100 MPH and over, and while on smooth, flat conditions, neither was really an issue. But throw in some rollers, chop, wind, slop, cruiser wakes or the occasional hole and there is a difference. The four point balance of the cats just feels more stable than the two point balance of the Vees under these conditions.
I would say that the amount of attention required and the white-knuckle factor for a cat running at 125 MPH is equaled in a similar sized V-bottom at about 100 MPH under these conditions.
Now a few years back, some rich boys with daddy's money went out and bought some cats capable of speeds over 140 MPH with tunnel tabs, that by the way have uses on a cat but leave much less of a margin for error if used improperly, and went high performance boating with little or no training and maybe even less respect for the machines they were in. They made mistakes, got in trouble and precious lives were lost.
The insurance carriers responded and we see the results. Premiums $10,000 and up, if even available. Now insurance is BIG business and as one member mentioned earlier, their all about "risks", bottom line. As more information becomes available to them, they will respond accordingly. Hopefully, for cat owners anyway, research by the insurance companies will reveal that the the catamaran design is in fact safer at speeds over 100 MPH and insurance rates will change accordingly. But usually as prices rarely seem to drop on anything these days, more likely I would expect the premiums of the 105 MPH V-bottoms to rise to the level of the 130 MPH catamarans after the first few incidents happen and they begin to weigh their "risks" and get the facts.
We probably need to police ourselves in some way on these issues because as we see, manufacturers are already building them and dealers are just going to push them into our laps with little concern for our safety.
I, like Marginmn, also wonder about the margin of error available in this type of package for the average consumer who may at times use a little too much wheel input or hit the wrong side of the trim switch for a couple seconds by mistake. Hopefully this wasn't just an all out attempt for top speed only with little margin for error. Thorough testing and unbiased reporting hopefully will provide the answers.
As most can tell, by my screen name and avatar, I currently prefer cats. I don't dislike V-bottoms for any particular reason, I just prefer cats from a performance standpoint, but for the pleasure boater, they have two major drawbacks compared to the Vee's. Cabin space and trailering. (if over 8'-6" wide) It'd be nice to be able to bang my favorite girl without bumping my head or my azz constantly or simply be able to throw out the anchor and spend the night if I decide to get too hammered to go home. That's the big advantage of the Vees.
Now I've ridden in both cats and Vees at a 100 MPH and over, and while on smooth, flat conditions, neither was really an issue. But throw in some rollers, chop, wind, slop, cruiser wakes or the occasional hole and there is a difference. The four point balance of the cats just feels more stable than the two point balance of the Vees under these conditions.
I would say that the amount of attention required and the white-knuckle factor for a cat running at 125 MPH is equaled in a similar sized V-bottom at about 100 MPH under these conditions.
Now a few years back, some rich boys with daddy's money went out and bought some cats capable of speeds over 140 MPH with tunnel tabs, that by the way have uses on a cat but leave much less of a margin for error if used improperly, and went high performance boating with little or no training and maybe even less respect for the machines they were in. They made mistakes, got in trouble and precious lives were lost.
The insurance carriers responded and we see the results. Premiums $10,000 and up, if even available. Now insurance is BIG business and as one member mentioned earlier, their all about "risks", bottom line. As more information becomes available to them, they will respond accordingly. Hopefully, for cat owners anyway, research by the insurance companies will reveal that the the catamaran design is in fact safer at speeds over 100 MPH and insurance rates will change accordingly. But usually as prices rarely seem to drop on anything these days, more likely I would expect the premiums of the 105 MPH V-bottoms to rise to the level of the 130 MPH catamarans after the first few incidents happen and they begin to weigh their "risks" and get the facts.
We probably need to police ourselves in some way on these issues because as we see, manufacturers are already building them and dealers are just going to push them into our laps with little concern for our safety.
Last edited by 9 Lives; 11-01-2006 at 06:43 PM.
10-31-2006, 09:46 PM
#192
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
By the way, it's really nice to read informed, well spoken posts by intelligent people with real concerns for the future of the sport without the usual interruptions of everybodys friend. I never contacted OSO, I guess they made a judgement call after someone reported my posts. Someone who could dish it out, but...........Thanks OSO.
Though, I do wonder how long I'll have these little red dots next to all of my posts where everyone else just has "Report Post"
Though, I do wonder how long I'll have these little red dots next to all of my posts where everyone else just has "Report Post"
Last edited by 9 Lives; 10-31-2006 at 11:38 PM.
10-31-2006, 11:26 PM
#193
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Originally Posted by 9 Lives
SLANDREW
Do you really think that when you show up in person, these people are saying "Oh goody, Andrew's here !" I'd be willing to bet it's more like an "Oh fu*k, where can we hide !"
...
Do you really think that when you show up in person, these people are saying "Oh goody, Andrew's here !" I'd be willing to bet it's more like an "Oh fu*k, where can we hide !"
...
Truer words have never been spoken..........
Pickle popper.
10-31-2006, 11:51 PM
#194
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Commercial Member
Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Reggie seems to be outright lying once again. 
Now he claims that Outerlimits has never showed up to a race.
Fountain vs Reggie
How quick he forgot about KW last year with OL's V-47
Other OL Race Boats:
Jus' Truckin'
Media Master
Wild Child
Obsession
Now he claims that Outerlimits has never showed up to a race.
Originally Posted by Reggie
They always know where we are and they never show up.
How quick he forgot about KW last year with OL's V-47
Other OL Race Boats:
Jus' Truckin'
Media Master
Wild Child
Obsession
Last edited by SHARKEY-IMAGES; 10-31-2006 at 11:55 PM.
11-01-2006, 01:45 AM
#195
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Originally Posted by Rippem
another defensive beaker clearly on the attack, even though he claims not to be.
BTW bring that 33' out into a quartering Eastern Lake Ontario 6+ foot washing machine for a 15 mile crossing, and we'll see who's dryer and had the softer ride...I'll bet it's the folks in the slug-boat! You boat on an inland lake right???
WTF?
were you born yesterday? To the insurance industry it's all the same...performance boats!
BTW bring that 33' out into a quartering Eastern Lake Ontario 6+ foot washing machine for a 15 mile crossing, and we'll see who's dryer and had the softer ride...I'll bet it's the folks in the slug-boat! You boat on an inland lake right???
WTF?
were you born yesterday? To the insurance industry it's all the same...performance boats!
11-01-2006, 01:46 AM
#196
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Originally Posted by sharkeymarine
Either that or a 47 Apache....
What would be your point?
What would be your point?
11-01-2006, 01:49 AM
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Originally Posted by epeek
Rippem, normaly I enjoy your posts and have always felt that
you are a staright up & intelligent guy...but I just don't understand
your current posts. Half the people on OSO spend a fortune every
year to make their boats faster. Making big,heavy "wave crushers
fast is expensive and difficult, especially when it comes to reliability.
Still people continue to do it at enormous expense. It really doesn't
matter if you buy a production boat that does 100 mph or build one.
Insurance rates are dictated on a rate of return to the insurance co.
Are you suggesting that manufacturers try to be less efficent. If
so,call the Porters and tell them they made a mistake with their Fastech
design. I mean,really,you can't be serious. Are you suggeting that
Fountain..or any other manufacturer stops trying to become more
efficent?? That would be financial suicide. You act as if Fountain is
the first manufacturer doing this. What about the Cig Gladiator?
The boat does close to 100mph with 525'S (my buddies does 90 with
500,S in fresh water!) So the boat has no cabin, To each his own. Thats
why we have choices. If there is a market for the 35 that Fountain builds,
even with a smaller cabin,so be it. Its the buyers right to make that
choice. My bet is people will be lining up to get them. I wish my 35 EX
would run 90mph with 496 relabilty. Honestly,it sounds like sour grapes.
you are a staright up & intelligent guy...but I just don't understand
your current posts. Half the people on OSO spend a fortune every
year to make their boats faster. Making big,heavy "wave crushers
fast is expensive and difficult, especially when it comes to reliability.
Still people continue to do it at enormous expense. It really doesn't
matter if you buy a production boat that does 100 mph or build one.
Insurance rates are dictated on a rate of return to the insurance co.
Are you suggesting that manufacturers try to be less efficent. If
so,call the Porters and tell them they made a mistake with their Fastech
design. I mean,really,you can't be serious. Are you suggeting that
Fountain..or any other manufacturer stops trying to become more
efficent?? That would be financial suicide. You act as if Fountain is
the first manufacturer doing this. What about the Cig Gladiator?
The boat does close to 100mph with 525'S (my buddies does 90 with
500,S in fresh water!) So the boat has no cabin, To each his own. Thats
why we have choices. If there is a market for the 35 that Fountain builds,
even with a smaller cabin,so be it. Its the buyers right to make that
choice. My bet is people will be lining up to get them. I wish my 35 EX
would run 90mph with 496 relabilty. Honestly,it sounds like sour grapes.
11-01-2006, 01:56 AM
#198
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Originally Posted by sharkeymarine
Reggie seems to be outright lying once again.
Now he claims that Outerlimits has never showed up to a race.
Fountain vs Reggie
How quick he forgot about KW last year with OL's V-47
Other OL Race Boats:
Jus' Truckin'
Media Master
Wild Child
Obsession
Now he claims that Outerlimits has never showed up to a race.
Fountain vs Reggie
How quick he forgot about KW last year with OL's V-47
Other OL Race Boats:
Jus' Truckin'
Media Master
Wild Child
Obsession
And vegas odds on that OL V-47 against the cat killer boat
47 Fountain 2-1 odds, and hey play the over-under...
3 laps that the OL will loose by. Im guessin you will take the under...HAHAHA
11-01-2006, 02:18 AM
#199
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Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
that's quite a spin you guys manage to put on what's been said
"should be encouraged to be less efficient"
see...there you go assuming that hull efficiency /design and top speed ability are the same thing
you couldn't be more wrong. One is positively influenced by the other but they are not synonomous, and you can demonstrate an incredible design without going 103!
by repeatedly pounding the point of speed you show yourself to be exactly what I'm talking about
really not understanding or appreciating the advancements in the design..
It's just all about...
the number
the number
the number
would you be just as impressed if this incredible design ran 80 on small blocks?
You wouldn't even notice, and yet the hull design/layout would be just as revelutionary and effective in that scenario.
So much for policing our gluttony for speed. How the he!! often can you use it? Really, in an average weekend of real boating? Guests, gear, traffic ect. ect...
there will be more of these 100MPH 35's put out in a year than all the Glads and 38ZR's ever built combined. I fear there will be less respect for the capabilities simply because they didn't build it up, or wait 6 months to get one! No labor of love, no moderation for fear of breakage, just write the check, turn the key and hammer it!!...what array of capabilities does that invite into the 100 MPH club on your local waterway?
PS. another childish name-calling attack on Formula just because I own one. I chose the Formula in the 35' market for my 6th boat because at 6'5" and 240 I needed the extra space their product offered in the cockpit for hanging out, and in the cabin for staying on the boat days, if not a week at a time. I have never claimed it is the be all/end all of boats in this size, it just fit my needs/boating style fairly well at this point. My experience has been that it is the quality product it was said to be with EXCELLENT customer support.
and BTW my Formula is a 34' boat.
buttass ugly? I'm not so sure sure that's a common opinion ouside the defensive camp. and certianly not the response I get out on the water!
oh and epeek, thanks for the kind words in reference to the time I've spent here on OSO. I'm only trying to stimulate discussion and debate about the future of the sport. Especially after all the discussion right here on this board over the last couple years about speed, safety and insurance.
"should be encouraged to be less efficient"
see...there you go assuming that hull efficiency /design and top speed ability are the same thing
you couldn't be more wrong. One is positively influenced by the other but they are not synonomous, and you can demonstrate an incredible design without going 103!
by repeatedly pounding the point of speed you show yourself to be exactly what I'm talking about
really not understanding or appreciating the advancements in the design..
It's just all about...
the number
the number
the number
would you be just as impressed if this incredible design ran 80 on small blocks?
You wouldn't even notice, and yet the hull design/layout would be just as revelutionary and effective in that scenario.
So much for policing our gluttony for speed. How the he!! often can you use it? Really, in an average weekend of real boating? Guests, gear, traffic ect. ect...
there will be more of these 100MPH 35's put out in a year than all the Glads and 38ZR's ever built combined. I fear there will be less respect for the capabilities simply because they didn't build it up, or wait 6 months to get one! No labor of love, no moderation for fear of breakage, just write the check, turn the key and hammer it!!...what array of capabilities does that invite into the 100 MPH club on your local waterway?
PS. another childish name-calling attack on Formula just because I own one. I chose the Formula in the 35' market for my 6th boat because at 6'5" and 240 I needed the extra space their product offered in the cockpit for hanging out, and in the cabin for staying on the boat days, if not a week at a time. I have never claimed it is the be all/end all of boats in this size, it just fit my needs/boating style fairly well at this point. My experience has been that it is the quality product it was said to be with EXCELLENT customer support.
and BTW my Formula is a 34' boat.
buttass ugly? I'm not so sure sure that's a common opinion ouside the defensive camp.
and certianly not the response I get out on the water!oh and epeek, thanks for the kind words in reference to the time I've spent here on OSO. I'm only trying to stimulate discussion and debate about the future of the sport. Especially after all the discussion right here on this board over the last couple years about speed, safety and insurance.
Last edited by Rippem; 11-01-2006 at 03:16 AM.
11-01-2006, 05:56 AM
#200
OSO Content Provider
Commercial Member
Re: Reggie's new 35 Lightning does 103 with 525's!!!
Originally Posted by tnothin
Well you said they wont let OL race so I just thought by you sayin they wont let Firewater race that...???
Come on, Reggie didn't welcome that competition last year....
If he wants to race fair and prove what he's got, have him show up in Destin with that so called "Cat Killer"...
Stay tuned....
