Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
02-06-2007, 10:33 PM
#121
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
I understand what you're saying (and knew you were going to say something along those lines). I guess it boils down to personal opinion.
Does Cigarette build "world champion racing boats"?? Yes, no doubt they have.
Does the majority of performance boaters know the racing heritage of Cig? Yes.
Do they have a "world champion racing team" right now? No.
I think if you have a long and distinguished racing history with a proven company/product (like Cigarette) then you should be able to put it on the side of your boat.
I think Apache could put on the side of thier prodect "World Champion Racing Boats". (I can't believe I'm about to say this) Just like I think Fountain has earned the right, though they don't.
Go out and win one or two world championships here and there (where people have to question whether you've ever won one because no one remembers!) No, I don't think that counts. Be a dominant force on the offhore circuit (like fountain has in recent years and Cigarette was for many years past) yea, I think that qualifies.
I guess it comes down to Simantics, "World Champion Racing Boats"? no doubt. "World Champion Racing Team"? Not right this minute, no.
Just my .02
Does Cigarette build "world champion racing boats"?? Yes, no doubt they have.
Does the majority of performance boaters know the racing heritage of Cig? Yes.
Do they have a "world champion racing team" right now? No.
I think if you have a long and distinguished racing history with a proven company/product (like Cigarette) then you should be able to put it on the side of your boat.
I think Apache could put on the side of thier prodect "World Champion Racing Boats". (I can't believe I'm about to say this) Just like I think Fountain has earned the right, though they don't.
Go out and win one or two world championships here and there (where people have to question whether you've ever won one because no one remembers!) No, I don't think that counts. Be a dominant force on the offhore circuit (like fountain has in recent years and Cigarette was for many years past) yea, I think that qualifies.
I guess it comes down to Simantics, "World Champion Racing Boats"? no doubt. "World Champion Racing Team"? Not right this minute, no.
Just my .02
world champion race boats??? Who knows. They claim
they do. They definetly build a phenominal performence
boat. Don Aronow built world champion race boats.Thats
a fact. But does Skip Braver? I kind of see it as a slap
in the Don's face. Skip Bravers Cigarette riding on Don
Aronows coat tails. I just think if he's gonna make the
World Champion claim...he should be backing it up.
He certainly doesnt need the sticker on the side,the boats
are beautiful. So why write checks your a$$ cant cash?
02-06-2007, 10:35 PM
#122
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Does anybody really buy a boat because it has "world champion" painted or slapped on its hull sides? Does anybody really buy a boat because a scary-fast one-off, and I don't care if it's a Fountain or an Outerlimits, sets the fastest kilo mark?
Cool stuff to talk and brag and argue about, but when it comes time to drop a few hundred thousand bucks or much, much more on a boat, does that kind of stuff close the deal?
I don't think so. Current or ancient history, against a mixed fleet or in a stacked deck, the "world champion, offshore racing" stuff is marketing. Sure, Cigarette hasn't won anything in a while. Does anyone doubt that Cigarette makes a great boat, regardless?
As for the F-4, someone nailed it in a post very early on. Looks great, built great, runs great by all accounts. But whether or not Sunsation can compete in the same market as Cigarette, Outerlimits or Nor-Tech remains to be seen. I think everyone wishes Sunsation the best, but only time will tell.
Cool stuff to talk and brag and argue about, but when it comes time to drop a few hundred thousand bucks or much, much more on a boat, does that kind of stuff close the deal?
I don't think so. Current or ancient history, against a mixed fleet or in a stacked deck, the "world champion, offshore racing" stuff is marketing. Sure, Cigarette hasn't won anything in a while. Does anyone doubt that Cigarette makes a great boat, regardless?
As for the F-4, someone nailed it in a post very early on. Looks great, built great, runs great by all accounts. But whether or not Sunsation can compete in the same market as Cigarette, Outerlimits or Nor-Tech remains to be seen. I think everyone wishes Sunsation the best, but only time will tell.
02-06-2007, 10:42 PM
#123
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
One more thing.... Apache??? When iss the last time they
did anything in racing??? Sorry but times change,
technology changes. Your Champ today and loser
tommorow. Your only as good as your last win.
Nobody but the current champion has the right
to make the claim "world Champion" If they want
to make the claim,let them do all the work,time,balls
and money it takes to win a Championship. Then
make your claim.
did anything in racing??? Sorry but times change,
technology changes. Your Champ today and loser
tommorow. Your only as good as your last win.
Nobody but the current champion has the right
to make the claim "world Champion" If they want
to make the claim,let them do all the work,time,balls
and money it takes to win a Championship. Then
make your claim.
02-06-2007, 10:58 PM
#124
Platinum Member
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
So the NY Jets should call themselves the World
champion NY Jets because they won a superbowl
in 1968 ? Sorry. Cig builds a great boat,but IMO
you can only call yourself a world champion if you
won in that same year. Not 20 years and 6 owners
ago.
It is a nice looking logo though.See...I kinda look at it differently. Does Cigarette build
world champion race boats??? Who knows. They claim
they do. They definetly build a phenominal performence
boat. Don Aronow built world champion race boats.Thats
a fact. But does Skip Braver? I kind of see it as a slap
in the Don's face. Skip Bravers Cigarette riding on Don
Aronows coat tails. I just think if he's gonna make the
World Champion claim...he should be backing it up.
He certainly doesnt need the sticker on the side,the boats
are beautiful. So why write checks your a$$ cant cash?
One more thing.... Apache??? When iss the last time they
did anything in racing??? Sorry but times change,
technology changes. Your Champ today and loser
tommorow. Your only as good as your last win.
Nobody but the current champion has the right
to make the claim "world Champion" If they want
to make the claim,let them do all the work,time,balls
and money it takes to win a Championship. Then
make your claim.
champion NY Jets because they won a superbowl
in 1968 ? Sorry. Cig builds a great boat,but IMO
you can only call yourself a world champion if you
won in that same year. Not 20 years and 6 owners
ago.
It is a nice looking logo though.See...I kinda look at it differently. Does Cigarette build
world champion race boats??? Who knows. They claim
they do. They definetly build a phenominal performence
boat. Don Aronow built world champion race boats.Thats
a fact. But does Skip Braver? I kind of see it as a slap
in the Don's face. Skip Bravers Cigarette riding on Don
Aronows coat tails. I just think if he's gonna make the
World Champion claim...he should be backing it up.
He certainly doesnt need the sticker on the side,the boats
are beautiful. So why write checks your a$$ cant cash?
One more thing.... Apache??? When iss the last time they
did anything in racing??? Sorry but times change,
technology changes. Your Champ today and loser
tommorow. Your only as good as your last win.
Nobody but the current champion has the right
to make the claim "world Champion" If they want
to make the claim,let them do all the work,time,balls
and money it takes to win a Championship. Then
make your claim.
02-06-2007, 11:14 PM
#125
VIP Member
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
AT will be displaying two brand new boats in the water at the Miami Boat Show; a 33 AVH and a 37 AVH. I have been on both boats, and they are FANTASTIC. Come find me in the booth if you want to know more.
02-07-2007, 04:26 AM
#126
Registered
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
epeek APACHES can still win checkout www.predator41.com
02-07-2007, 08:38 AM
#128
Registered
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
I think Ciagarettes racing heritage speaks for itself. The "World Champion Race Team" on the side of Cigarettes is well deserved. Cigarette has been in and out of racing and winning world championships longer than anyone else in the game
(though it's been 6 years since they won a world championship).
That being said. I would like to see them on the race course or at least help their racers. But I understand why they dont...They don't need too, they have nothing to prove and there's no money in it.
(though it's been 6 years since they won a world championship).
That being said. I would like to see them on the race course or at least help their racers. But I understand why they dont...They don't need too, they have nothing to prove and there's no money in it.
02-07-2007, 08:42 AM
#129
Registered
Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
Hey Tank, Deep down Rick really does love Cigs !!
He wont be complaining in 10 days while we are out cruising around So Florida in My Gladiator
He wont be complaining in 10 days while we are out cruising around So Florida in My Gladiator
02-07-2007, 09:29 AM
#130
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Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
comparing 288's and 32's to Cigs, OL's and N.T's,,,, this is a joke right ??? If were not talking about the F4 here, than we should be talking about 288's, 32's, Baja's, Fountain's, and Nordics and the like in the same breath...
