phragle

iTrader: (3)

"The offender who cut the paceboat off has already been defended to me by a few people as he is an NJPPC member. The rebuttle is that he could not see out of the sides of his boat well."

I have no idea what happened, but lets be real..why would anyone not on a death mission be driving aggressivly in a crowded area with limited vision of the sorounding area??

thats not just suicidal, its down right homocidal.

scottc

This might be one reason insurance companies are shooting big rates out there to the cats and big powered V's. After all, "it's not a race, but I will get there first". My hat is off to Stu for putting his foot down but, maybe it should be looked at and adjusted some to work better. If things keep going in a reckless manor none of us will be able to enjoy the really fast boats execpt in the races. And our insurance rates will require a 20 year mortgage to make the payments. We all make mistakes at some time and that's how we learn somtimes. If we can't learn or follow the rules then get off the water so the rest of us can.

DaveP

Yes Bob you are correct. Except Mark has had poor judgement before when 2 friends of mine rode with him in his 32 Active Thunder in 1000 islands 5 years ago and he was flying and hit an unseen tanker wake and SAILED the boat injuring my 2 friends.

People can either operate boats with their head or ABOVE their heads.

There is no excuse for stupidity. I have been boating all my life and never once have I injured anyone. Probably because of luck but more than likely because I am always cautious when I run. (obviosuly that does not make me invicible becuase anything can happen) I just think careless operation increases those odds.

FeverMike

I have only been on 1 of Stu's events hosted along with the local Tampa club. Stu make it very clear more than 1 time during the drivers meeting what the rules are. To me there was no question about right or wrong for Stu's event.

Also showing off and being dangerous has no place at these events...safety is the prime concern as it should be. There is a time and place to run fast.

Cash Bar

Dave, I was with Bob and Mark during this exchange. I was also talking to people that were on the Cig paceboat. Yes, the owner was PISSED, rightfully so at the time, but cooler heads prevailed afterward.

I just don't think an incident in Florida should be reason to ban someone from running elsewhere unless a pattern has been established. Each event should be able to operate independantly w/o being berated by the other event organizers.

cuda

As I see it, it's very simple. It's Stu's game, either play by his rules, or don't go. I also think that any other club has the right to ban anyone they deem unsafe.

tanner

Ever see a kid fly by you at 140 + on a crotch rocket.... you say to yourself.. what a dumbazz!!!

You see someone fly by you a 100+ in a car weaving in and out of trafffic, you get pissed and want to knock the chit out of them.... the difference is if the motorcycle crashes he gets hurt, the cars crashes he will take out a few more and potentially put others in harm. Wanna go fast, go out in the open waters and knock yourself out, but not in a pack of others.

Stu knows what he is doing and a great job at that!!

C_Spray

iTrader: (2)

I'm just glad to see this group supporting safety over "freedom to do whatever I want". It hasn't always been that way on this board. If we police ourselves as a community (not just as individual organizations or events), things will be far better than if the insurance companies or the government does it.

I have no problem giving people second chances, but once a pattern is established, the rest of us have no option but to declare the repeat offender to be "persona non grata".
Suppose an organizer allows an acknowledged reckless operator into his event and that person causes an incident. The first question any good prosecutor/plaintiffs attorney will ask is why someone let a known ax-murderer into the schoolyard.

In the end, anti-social people make their own decision to be excluded from social events by their own actions. It's no different than mean drunks - no one wants to be around them.

It's simple:
Behavior = Consequences

cuda

Also, past performance predicts future behavior.

DaveP

I'm sorry but myself and almost all of the organizers around teh country disagree. The new communication between the organizers is very important. It helps identify participants that are troublemakers, out right a$$holes or people who do dumb sh*t. The incidient with Mark at the Miami Run falls under #3. I like Mark and have known him for quite a few years but I have a responsibility to protect myself, the other participants in the event as well as our reputaiton with the local police and USCG.

If 98% of the people on the Miami Run listed to Stu and Brad but 2% did not - what is a good reason why?

Fell asleep at the drivers meeting or wanted to be "out front" and to be the LEAD DOG??? Stupidity leads to the be "out front" and to be the LEAD DOG thought process.

I DO AGREE that we should not automatically ban someone immediately and will reverse my position on that from my original statement after talking to Stu and several other organizers yesterday.

At NJPPC, in the past we have always used the 1st Warning Rule and then 2nd offense leads to dismissal. If an offended shows no remorse when the incident is addressed with him/her and they have the "F-U" attitude, then they are done with our club right on the spot.