Good thread - I hope to make a comment as an apache owner very soon.....albeit just a 28.
Had my brother over the other day and told him of the boat I'm closing a deal on. He couldn't understand why I would want to waist all that money on a go-fast boat with only 5 seats. I said - Well, because DREAMS COST MONEY!!!.
Why Apache are so expensive? ..... who cares.....
why is it apache threads go on and on and on.... thats the question
People like underdog stories/fiction... just look at Rocky movies.
Thereīs also your answer to why many "diss" Cigarettes and Fountains and think Nor-Techs and other curiosita are something.
To me an Old Cig, Scarab or whatever RACEboat is a tad above their pleasure versions and gets my Thumbs up but touting the pleasure version being something else well ..close but no cigar despite being a whatever hi tech XZRSJ new edition special mumbojumbo.
And Yes Formulas with Kaamas/ASDīs gets my attention too.
Something out of the mainstream works and yes a Formula with Kaamas/ASDīs are underdogs/sleepers that can make the others look stoopiiid
Why are Apaches so expensive?
That's easy...You get what you pay for.
BUT McManus is one of the originals since day one!
According to my memory he worked early on (and that might go even into the 70īs...free feel to correct) at Cigarette (maybe even SQ XII) like Bobby S did and if we think further the first Apache Racer was in fact a SQ XII 39(=39 Cig Competition with wider strakes).
So apparently he was around and getting his hands dirty since day one just like Bobby S or anyother who getīs credited.
He has had the determination to get the molds (for the 41 ups) and the name to himself and stuck with the Apache even at bad times.
Heīs the one that should be held acclaimed and credited for keeping the dream alive IMO.
And Yes he owns the trademark officially, without any sideremarks, why is it so hard to admit that and the fact HE IS THE Key player because of his Determination to the name, not fogetting others either ?
Fact is you can order one from McManus at the price Apaches always have commanded brand new, expect it to be made of materials several times higher in price and quality as always and maybe he can even build one stronger and lighter than any (relic) before ?
If he or any old reputable builder canīt then itīs better to turn to others (who have Apache molds) and is up to date with the build techniques regarding these new upto 60yrs old materials (Epoxy, Para-Aramids, Carbon Fiber ) and probably be more than happy USING a brand new one and beating it to death...
Just like using a new racecar...
Apparently the price has proved unbearable even today using these materials as not many are built so people stick to the older ones and build them up over and over again.
IMO the resale market would be quite bad for an old school style boat with todays materials used as the price will be for a hull more than another similar sized turn key boat.
Also any old used race XXXX that isnīt competitive or needs too much overhaul to keep competitive/even running isnīt going to get sold easily as the competitors know it and the one "dumb enough" to buy one isnīt there yet.. it takes 20+yrs to forget the setbacks and look back at the glory days....
A Racer canīt afford to be brand loyal but a wannabe can.
Yes The Cobra and Apache do have a similar history, as being underdogs in their racing record internationally but having domestic success.Again, all this history, heritage etc. adds to the aura of owning one of this pieces of offshore racing history.... AC Cobra, Shelby Cobra, what have you....they are both RARE and SOUGHT AFTER, which typically demands a higher price. If people don't find value in that, they simply don't purchase one, OR they just complain how expensive they are.
So all in all they both were winning occasionally, yes but not constently like those which arenīt that heralded just because the name gets so common because of the wins and ink they get in volumes.
So a 36 Apache doesnīt hold a special place in afficiandos eyes but a 41 Racer does.And a 1995 37' OuterLimits "on average" is demanding a higher resale than a 1995 36' Apache ($80-110K vs. $115-160K).... Both boats are no longer in production by either company.....but I know where the 37 OL molds are...the 36' Apache molds are cut up....
Just like I stood upon a 90īs Ferrari yesterday without taking a second glimps at it but looked with more interest at the couple 420/454 Mercs behind it going for a rebuild...or the 1972 Alfa Romeo 2000GTV I volunteered working on.
A Niché market is always just that and yes more than often has an inflated market because of various things.
In Apache it has to be to some extent the shady characters involved as thereīs more distinguished race records in other brands.
Think Lamborghini* and Cobra* vs. Corvette,Ferrari or Porsche.
*In both marques itīs an inflated reputation vs. their race successes.
The funny thing is many thinks Lambos have a race record or race models to speak of which they donīt or have never had a factory race effort anywhere.
Last edited by MikeyFIN; 10-20-2007 at 09:17 AM.
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