Why Apache are so expensive?
10-20-2007, 04:14 PM
#131
Charter Member #71
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Location: Long Island,N.Y.
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10-20-2007, 06:04 PM
#132
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Offtopic...
Fino was a boat designed by Carlo Riva after he sold Riva and made in the US in glassfibre If I´m not mistaken but it didn´t catch wind and Carlo bought Riva back after a while ?
At least here´s one in US Fino 30
Fino was a boat designed by Carlo Riva after he sold Riva and made in the US in glassfibre If I´m not mistaken but it didn´t catch wind and Carlo bought Riva back after a while ?
At least here´s one in US Fino 30
My father owned this boat from give/take 1975-1985. It was a great boat, it ran about 65-70 mph and at the time that was pretty respectable.... When he first bought the boat he saw it at the NYC boat show and was inbetween buying this boat and an Aronow design...he chose to go with the Fino... Instead of buying the floor model he ordered his. From what he told me, many trips to Magnum throughout the build process.... I guess you grow up around these classic boats and it makes you want to own one.... My facination with Apache started when they had the tripple engine 45 Apache at the NYC boat show...
Last edited by Panther; 10-20-2007 at 06:06 PM.
10-20-2007, 06:16 PM
#133
10-20-2007, 07:52 PM
#135
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Yeah baby!!!! Is that your boat now?
I remember looking in the engine room and asking my father how they fit the three engines in there....all I saw was chrome... My father grew up with a guy by the name of Phil, he became sales manager for Tempest which was at the same show. Long story short, after looking at the Apache we went over to the Tempest booth so my parents chould hang out with Philly. while they were talking he let me go inside the 32 Tempest...I got tired so when they came back to check on me 45 minutes later I was sleeping.
What year was that anyway??
I remember looking in the engine room and asking my father how they fit the three engines in there....all I saw was chrome... My father grew up with a guy by the name of Phil, he became sales manager for Tempest which was at the same show. Long story short, after looking at the Apache we went over to the Tempest booth so my parents chould hang out with Philly. while they were talking he let me go inside the 32 Tempest...I got tired so when they came back to check on me 45 minutes later I was sleeping.
What year was that anyway??
Last edited by Panther; 10-20-2007 at 07:55 PM.
10-20-2007, 08:38 PM
#136
Geronimo36
Gold Member
10-20-2007, 08:40 PM
#137
Registered
Wow, This thread has gotten entertaining. I suppose that is to be expected with an apache thread.
Here is something I read A number of years ago ( this was posted sometime in 2002 on Boat Design.net):
" Founded Apache Powerboats in 1978 when I started tooling my 21’, 33’ & 39’ boat line. I incorporated Apache Powerboats and went into production in 1980. At the same time I also owned and operated Race Headquarters, Inc., a custom Hi-Performance center and I also co-owned Hawk Marine Power.
In 1982, I brought the Kramer’s into Apache as my partners (I had this reversed and thought Kramer started Apache and brought Bob in), sold my interest in Hawk Marine Power (interesting that it comes full circle) and absorbed Race Headquarters, its crew and all its equipment into Apache. The first order of business was to produce the baddest wave buster’s money could buy. Since the tooling for my new 39’ offshore was still months away from completion, I went to the King himself, Don Aronow, and made arrangements to purchase a new 41’ mold he had just completed. The first boat out of the mold was blue and tan and Benny called it “Warpath”. My original Race Headquarters crew rigged Warpath and off we went for sea trial. Ben and I ran Warpath offshore through some of the heaviest seas imaginable at over 90 miles per hour. Ben and I knew immediately that we had built a real winner. We entered Warpath in the APBA Open Class and won the Key West World Championship in 1984. The original factory team was Ben Kramer – Driver, Bob Saccenti – Throttles, and Tom Evans – Navigator. In 1985 we took Second in the Key West U.I.M. Worlds, with the red “Team Apache”.
Ben and I were now racing around the world with APBA & U.I.M. to promote Apache Powerboats. Because of our demanding race schedule we decided to contract Bobby Moore to rig all of our 41’ production and to serve as Crew Chief on our race team. In 1985, I ended my partnership with the Kramer’s on a friendly note agreeing to share the name Apache. I called my company Apache Performance Boats; he kept my original name, Apache Powerboats. Even though we were now two separate companies, we continued to act as one, sharing boat show space and tooling. We also continued to race as a team for promotion of the name. In 1986, we won the National Championship and were awarded the coveted US1 in our “prototype” catamaran “Team Apache”. That was also the year we introduced the new 47’ triple engine Apache Superboat.
In 1987, things started to fall apart. The Kramer’s had major legal problems and the government seized all their assets including Fort Apache Marina and Apache Powerboats. The government hand picked one of Ben’s employees to run the company while they completed their investigation. Some of Ben’s employees were involved with Ben’s problems, some left, and new people were hired. With the new star employee running things, the first order of his business was to disassemble the last 41’ Bobby Moore rigged and copy all measurements and systems and make jigs and templates to duplicate Bobby Moore’s genius (nothing like knowing your trade). Bobby Moore has never gotten over this to this day.
Many years passed and it was business as usual for me. Around 1996, the government auctioned all the Kramer’s assets. The only thing they did not sell was the Florida Trademark for Apache and the Apache Powerboat name. I did not think about it at the time because my Apache Trademark, although slightly different, is a Federal Trademark. From time to time my attorney in Washington would inquire about the State trademark and was always told “it’s not for sale”. Well, SURPRISE – SURPRISE. After one such inquiry, I was advised that the same STAR EMPLOYEE had just purchased the Florida Trademark from the same “it’s not for sale” government for a couple hundred bucks. What a success story, the employee gets to own the company. Yeah.
Now the real confusion.
With Apache Powerboats & Apache Performance Boats already sharing the market, the old retired 41’ molds were purchased at auction for 12k and re-sold to a company in Ohio that advertised that they could build the “41’ Apache for half the price”. Also, the star employee moved to the other coast and started to produce boats by Xerox under another tribal name and when I wasn’t looking he slid a few Apache’s in for good measure. Personally, I think he should have named his company “High Dollar Lead Sleds, Inc.”. Additionally, in the early – mid 90’s, a Miami based company made a very, very bad copy of the 41’. They changed the bottom, cut the sheer, and the first time in the water the boat rolled in its first turn. The molds were stacked and stored in the sun and weather out in the yard to never be used again. Just recently those same molds were sold to an individual in Blountstown, Florida who is now saying he is the “New Apache”. What a joke. I wouldn’t use those molds for a flower pot.
All of this would have surely brought tears to Geronimo’s eyes.
Also, rumor has it that I sold out, died, left town, closed up and went out of business and so on. WRONG. NONE OF THE ABOVE
All that I have written here can easily be verified and I know, I lived it.
If you have any questions please call or fax me. I do better on the phone than the keyboard. The resin makes my fingers stick to the keys.
Also, thanks to all the Apache owners who put the TLC and money into keeping their Apache in tip top shape and promoting the heritage.
Best regards,
Bob Saccenti"
NOW, I am simply cutting and pasting what I read somewhere else. Don't attack me I am simply sharing because I found it interesting when I read it. I am not picking sides in any of it. I love my boat and that is all that matters to me. I don't understand why everybody has to knock each other to me this is all supposed to be about enjoying life and the hobby we all enjoy and we are fortunate enough to be able to take part in.
-Josh
Here is something I read A number of years ago ( this was posted sometime in 2002 on Boat Design.net):
" Founded Apache Powerboats in 1978 when I started tooling my 21’, 33’ & 39’ boat line. I incorporated Apache Powerboats and went into production in 1980. At the same time I also owned and operated Race Headquarters, Inc., a custom Hi-Performance center and I also co-owned Hawk Marine Power.
In 1982, I brought the Kramer’s into Apache as my partners (I had this reversed and thought Kramer started Apache and brought Bob in), sold my interest in Hawk Marine Power (interesting that it comes full circle) and absorbed Race Headquarters, its crew and all its equipment into Apache. The first order of business was to produce the baddest wave buster’s money could buy. Since the tooling for my new 39’ offshore was still months away from completion, I went to the King himself, Don Aronow, and made arrangements to purchase a new 41’ mold he had just completed. The first boat out of the mold was blue and tan and Benny called it “Warpath”. My original Race Headquarters crew rigged Warpath and off we went for sea trial. Ben and I ran Warpath offshore through some of the heaviest seas imaginable at over 90 miles per hour. Ben and I knew immediately that we had built a real winner. We entered Warpath in the APBA Open Class and won the Key West World Championship in 1984. The original factory team was Ben Kramer – Driver, Bob Saccenti – Throttles, and Tom Evans – Navigator. In 1985 we took Second in the Key West U.I.M. Worlds, with the red “Team Apache”.
Ben and I were now racing around the world with APBA & U.I.M. to promote Apache Powerboats. Because of our demanding race schedule we decided to contract Bobby Moore to rig all of our 41’ production and to serve as Crew Chief on our race team. In 1985, I ended my partnership with the Kramer’s on a friendly note agreeing to share the name Apache. I called my company Apache Performance Boats; he kept my original name, Apache Powerboats. Even though we were now two separate companies, we continued to act as one, sharing boat show space and tooling. We also continued to race as a team for promotion of the name. In 1986, we won the National Championship and were awarded the coveted US1 in our “prototype” catamaran “Team Apache”. That was also the year we introduced the new 47’ triple engine Apache Superboat.
In 1987, things started to fall apart. The Kramer’s had major legal problems and the government seized all their assets including Fort Apache Marina and Apache Powerboats. The government hand picked one of Ben’s employees to run the company while they completed their investigation. Some of Ben’s employees were involved with Ben’s problems, some left, and new people were hired. With the new star employee running things, the first order of his business was to disassemble the last 41’ Bobby Moore rigged and copy all measurements and systems and make jigs and templates to duplicate Bobby Moore’s genius (nothing like knowing your trade). Bobby Moore has never gotten over this to this day.
Many years passed and it was business as usual for me. Around 1996, the government auctioned all the Kramer’s assets. The only thing they did not sell was the Florida Trademark for Apache and the Apache Powerboat name. I did not think about it at the time because my Apache Trademark, although slightly different, is a Federal Trademark. From time to time my attorney in Washington would inquire about the State trademark and was always told “it’s not for sale”. Well, SURPRISE – SURPRISE. After one such inquiry, I was advised that the same STAR EMPLOYEE had just purchased the Florida Trademark from the same “it’s not for sale” government for a couple hundred bucks. What a success story, the employee gets to own the company. Yeah.
Now the real confusion.
With Apache Powerboats & Apache Performance Boats already sharing the market, the old retired 41’ molds were purchased at auction for 12k and re-sold to a company in Ohio that advertised that they could build the “41’ Apache for half the price”. Also, the star employee moved to the other coast and started to produce boats by Xerox under another tribal name and when I wasn’t looking he slid a few Apache’s in for good measure. Personally, I think he should have named his company “High Dollar Lead Sleds, Inc.”. Additionally, in the early – mid 90’s, a Miami based company made a very, very bad copy of the 41’. They changed the bottom, cut the sheer, and the first time in the water the boat rolled in its first turn. The molds were stacked and stored in the sun and weather out in the yard to never be used again. Just recently those same molds were sold to an individual in Blountstown, Florida who is now saying he is the “New Apache”. What a joke. I wouldn’t use those molds for a flower pot.
All of this would have surely brought tears to Geronimo’s eyes.
Also, rumor has it that I sold out, died, left town, closed up and went out of business and so on. WRONG. NONE OF THE ABOVE
All that I have written here can easily be verified and I know, I lived it.
If you have any questions please call or fax me. I do better on the phone than the keyboard. The resin makes my fingers stick to the keys.
Also, thanks to all the Apache owners who put the TLC and money into keeping their Apache in tip top shape and promoting the heritage.
Best regards,
Bob Saccenti"
NOW, I am simply cutting and pasting what I read somewhere else. Don't attack me I am simply sharing because I found it interesting when I read it. I am not picking sides in any of it. I love my boat and that is all that matters to me. I don't understand why everybody has to knock each other to me this is all supposed to be about enjoying life and the hobby we all enjoy and we are fortunate enough to be able to take part in.
-Josh
Last edited by baywatch; 10-20-2007 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Typos Galore
10-20-2007, 08:54 PM
#138
McManus was pushing pencils as an operations manager, not actually getting his hands dirty. In fact he probably never turned a wrench or stepped inside one of his customers boats for all we know. Where are his racing credentials??? Who much setupging/rig info did he steal from Bobby Moore? How many championships did "he" win behind the wheel??
:
:
I can't understand the reasoning behind or or agree with that putdown.
10-20-2007, 09:08 PM
#139
Geronimo36
Gold Member
Apache's whether Saccenti built or McManus built are all aces in my book!
Last edited by Panther; 10-20-2007 at 09:13 PM.
10-20-2007, 10:00 PM
#140
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
