cobra marty

Hey everyone, We all have some great ideas. So what are they? Post any new ideas or thoughts related to boats. I'll start;

Small adjustable trim tabs on the steps of stepped hulls. Would help get on plane and then retract up flat.

tomcat

Hydraulic Jacking Extension Box

I've mentioned this before and so have others. Seeing as how propshaft position is so important, and setting it high for speed compromises other things, why isn't there a hydraulic jacking extension box with about 4" of travel? I know a good setup man with a season of racing trial and error can get it right for most conditions, but I'd rather push a button and watch the speedo. Rather than fixing the drive at a compromise position, you could go 2" down for planing and cruising, and 2" up for speed.

Hydraulic Tunnel Extension Flap
(air flap on the bow, not tunnel tab at the stern)

We focus a lot on the design of the running surface in a cat, but the aerodynamics of the wing (the deck and tunnel roof) must be just as important at high speed. In T2x's history of cats, the idea of air flaps was proposed in the '60s. Was this ever done?

I picture a sliding flap that extends the deck, filling in the tunnel roof between the sponson tips, moving the center of lift forward slightly and increasing lift at lower speeds. Trim it back at higher speeds to reduce the need for negative trim on the drives. Once again a good setup man would have the boat balanced for known racing and load conditions, but I'd rather push a button. Even if it didn't work, it would be worth about 10 mph at the dock.

yahoo

The hydralic lift you are talking about has been done, The stainless marine boat had one on it at one time.

Something we talked about for supercat:


Using air cooled radiators to cool the motors.

No water pick ups on the hull 3-5 mph, constant running temp(lean out the motors), smaller water pumps(Nascar type) additional HP.

The weight was an issue, but Team Yahoo was already to light.

There were other ideas, just ran out of time.

Curtis

mama tryed

hey Cat ,ole bud,,,, I like your style!!

Ron P

I am suprized that more boats don't fee air to the steps. A step is supposed to airate the bottom, but where does it get the air? I believe Mr Technology was the first boat ever to have side inlets for a plenum of air to feed to the step. With out a way for air to fill in the void created by the step, it would actually create a vacuum. Think about it, kinda like an airplane wing. Now all Phantoms have holes on the side just above the chine, usually below the waterline.

Now I am seeing Fountain raceboats and every Outerlimits will air fed steps. It is worth a few extra miles per hour.

Next time you look at a step, see if there any holes drilled into it?

NASTY HABIT

what about some sort of forced air induction under the hull... more air less friction... ?? maybe thru the hull bottom..air inlets near the bow with jets downstream before the steps.....

Ron P

I believe there was one boat made by the name of Axiom that had a bottom like a knock hockey board (thousands of tiny holes drilled into the bottom) and a blower to generate air bubbles through the holes. Never heard about the boat after one article in Powerboat many years ago.

I believe that one hell of a blower would be needed to create positive air pressure in the system as the water rushed by at 80mph. Seems like a better idea to have the air sucked through the holes by the water.

NASTY HABIT

maybe it threw a belt...... down she goes...... that is the therory with steps correct.. ? creating a vaccum pulling air in the sides....the water pulling it under the hull.....

Ron P

I could never understand how air will be sucked sideways all the way to the keel as the boat is going 80 mph over the surface. Seems better to bring the air to where it is needed. Rather than have it fights it's way across the stream.

NASTY HABIT

considering the amount of hull actually making contact with the water at speed...it couldn't take much air to lubricatre whatever was making contact with the surface...depending on the surf conditions....

glassdave

iTrader: (1)

tomcat- i believe the merc sage drive has the ability to travel up and down several inches changing the x dim. in fact they go in and out to. dont quite know how one would go about get'n a pair though

puder

glassdave those are merc drives??? I though they were the wiesmans?

puder

i know the cyborg trannies are the **** (for all you old foggies that is a compliment) and can handle most power.

BUT i hear the torque v12s seems to be snappign everythign they hook them up to. How about a new tranny that can handle the power but doesn't rob like 20% of the HP and wiegh 500lbs.

anybody working on soemthign like that?

Ron P

Those are SAGE drives. See Skaterfest at www.darrensoffshorephotos.homestead.com for more photos and details.

shifter

Puder,
We can make anything you need. We have some prototype transmissions that we will be trying soon, 1250 ft lbs of torque F-n-r it weighs 125 lbs. Along with that we have a new drive that we will be running soon that will eat torqs for breakfast, It also weighs only 315 lbs. Then we can talk multi speeds.....
Ron P is that Will Smiths boat in the avitar you have?
pat W
catman, make sure that detecter is for women only!!!!

tomcat

glassdave - Looks like you're right. The base of the steering rams is not a fixed point but a bar with at least 4" of travel. I saw the drive before but never noticed that. Cool! Now if Sage can make an extension box that will take Bravo drives and do this. Length will have to be considerable to have decent U-joint angles.

Ron P

Shifter, that is my old Phantom Mr Technology at the 1995 worlds in Key West. Will Smith was my navigator and crew chief. Today, Will and I are good friends.

Mrgoodwrench

My idea is a closed cooling system for innercoolers. Something similiar to an A/C evaperator. The evap would be near 30 degrees, cooling the air charge from the blower. One problem is the condensation on the evap would go into the engine. If it was possible to maintain a temp where there was no condensation you could pack the engine with cooler dense air, and lots more HP!!

shifter

Ron P,
I hought that paint job looked like the one on his business card. Is that the same boat I saw with 5ft extention boxes and #5s a couple of years back? Do you still race? I saw boats that used compressed air to try to decrease drag I don't think that it worked to well. I saw those vents on the Extreem also. From what I have seen you need wetted suface for turns. Steps should decrease towards the chines for better stability in turns. I think..
catman,sorry dude, you left yourself wide open.
tom cat, There were a couple of boats that I know of that had tunnel flaps. Kaama cat of betty cook had a front wing that would close off the tunnel.(no good) #7 from Victory team had a full front wing that had an adjustable flap. (worked ok could have done better) Caseraggi of Monaco had the same thing in his boat to kill lift.(he stuffed and died-not good at all) Upper surface lift is very important. Skater is discovering that. They are starting ti look like the other fast boats. Assagi, I think that was his big downfall.
pat W
I have always wanted to build a tri-hull. Real wings instead of flying TR-7s, very low profile. I built a model about 7 years ago. We are running the driveline concept in Ettore. Someday I hope to finish the rest.
pat W

shifter

I would like to but I am barely able to type. The only thing I do with a computer is fire it up and design with it. If you ever make it to Cali I will show it to you.
pat W
Thanks for the visual before I go to sleep.

Rambunctious

How about:

1) Poor mans silent choice.(loud choice?) a solenoid to control the water flow to the risers. shut it off once the thermostat opens, reducing overal water to the exhaust. making them louder, and having more power output.

2) (top fuel dragster like) parachutes on the big cats, saving the cat from a full blowover. deploys at say... 45 degree pitch. (you shouldn't be there anyway). pulling the stern, reducing speed significantly, and hopefully leveling the boat and preventing a full blow-over.

3) Digital outdrive/trim indicators using linear, or rotational transducers and digital meters. can even have set points, one touch, trims to optimal trim setting for WOT. (patent pending)
Kinda like your seat memory on your Beamer or Lincoln. I'm working on it since my mercruiser guages NEVER WORK!!!! Arg!!

4) Another product my partner and I are working on right now. grand opening in a month for a product most boaters here will like and hopefully use. See my O.T. request for help/advise on small company startup.

Ron P

Shifter, we raced during 95 and 96. The boat is now owned by Jeff in Sarasota. He added the extension boxed and the third center tab.

I hear it will race again this year in SBI F2.

Cattitude

What about a simple water injection system for NA and blown apps- would'nt that have an intercooling effect and bring more oxygen into the compustion chamber? Either a spray bar or a couple NOS type fogger nozzles? For that matter- just a 25 hp fogger set-up more for the intercooling benefits of NO2 than the added oxygen and fuel (a side benny though!)

tomcat

shifter - thanks for the history lesson on front tunnel flaps. These comments should be added to the Great Moments in Cat History.

If Skater is going more aero, would the difference in performance be seen in the old 32/new 32 comparison? With a pair of 575 SCi the new 32 does about 125 mph. There is an old 32 in Canada with triple 400 HP 2.7L Merc outboards that does 130. It seems as though the new one goes about the same speed with about the same power, but it has to weigh more. Three outboards weigh about 1500 lbs. Two inboard/outboards weigh close to 3000 lbs. Then again the outboard is dragging an extra drive.

Anyone know of an old 32 with inboard power and HP similar to the 575SCi? I know merlin540 has the old Agitator boat, which he said did 107 with a pair of 550 HP small blocks. That's a long way from 125 mph.

cobra marty

Rambunctious--
I have often thought about an automatic drive and trim tabs system. We know where to set them for getting on plane and what is best for say 30 ans 50 and WOT. Why not have this programed in and set according to speed. The only variable is weight which will throw it off. Maybe better would be a 'angle' guage and try to maintain a specific ride angle/level.
How many times we use 2 positions 1) down to get on plane and 2) WOT for speed. Everything in between is testing.

glassdave

iTrader: (1)

i wonder if there would be any advantage in cutting the skeg of the center drive on a boat set up with triples , to reduce drag. or more extreme . . choping the two outside skegs and relying on the center one ( that might be a little too extreme though) . . . the reason i wonder is i notice the fastest cats like the bud boat cut all the skegs and rely on just one rudder. . . .hmmmm . . .just my thoughts . . .this is turn'n out to be a pretty cool thread . . . . .you know what they say . ."necessity is the mother of invention" . . .

cobra marty

On a single, or twinor triple, how about cutting off the skeg and placing a rudder behind the prop but not lower than the prop. It would be mounted to the drive -bolted on like a steering bracket, all stainless, hanging out behind the bravo drive.

shifter

The center rudder has great balance for a boat at high speeds. At low its useless, not enough area for the amount of wetted surface.
Skegs in front of props is not the greatest for a traction limited propellers. The skegs at high speeds tend to make the boat go left to right because of drag . When we did the first drive design of the WSD it was center rudder with drives steering also. IE thrust vectoring. Someday it will catch on the more people get used to seeing rudders.
Another improvement to boats have been cnc molds. I have checked a lot of boats over the years and they were not very straight.
Aero has helped a lot.. a lot. The amount that the boat weighs at speed is negated by lift,cat or vee. Cats are obviously less affected. On one of the boats we ran full and empty, it ran 158 full or empty, the difference was in acceleration. 28 vrs 30 secs from 100 to 150mph. That is 900 liters of diesel.
Set-up and balance are things that have made huge advances props too ask Herring. CNC cool stuff.
We have made a digital light display for the trim and steering indicators. It has been in the Ettore boat for one year for sea trials. So far so good. It should be available soon. We are trying to get a handle on cost . The next step is cnc control of the settings instead of tap tap tap @#$%% I went too far tap tap..... ahh just leave it. Its almost done.
Water injection--- this is turning into the cheating guide.
lots of fun though.
pat W

Ron P

Talk about water injection.

I had a Sonic 24 w/235 Johnrudes that went 64 MPH all the time no matter what. One day it was screaming and I look at the speedo and I'm doing 73. The one motor was at 6000 rpms and the other at 5400 as normal. On the way home the fast motor quite and wouldn't restart. I took it in to the shop and found that I had a leak from the cooling passage into the engine. How many cyclinders could have been effected? Two?

My point is, water injection seemed to work wonders! Can it be controlled and not destroy an engine?

glassdave

iTrader: (1)

if im not mistaken , one of the biggest effects water vapor injection has on an engine is raising compression (due to the non-compresability of water)

i have seen some companies playing around with it in the early 90's but havnt seen anything latley. i does work . not quite sure how easy it is to control though. i think it would not be good for supercharged engines either, with their need for low base compression . . . hate to say it but i think you can still get kits in JC whitney . . . no kid'n . .