Outerlimits rolled in Norway?
06-08-2009, 08:51 PM
#32
VIP Member
VIP Member
I want to know more about this accident;
1. Why did the top of the boat delaminate? Design defect? Manufacturing defect? This is not an acceptable answer - it is an epoxy boat (or a vinylester resin boat) that hit a wave at 130mph+ and rolled. Design should be made for this type of occurrence, it is not the first roll with an Outerlimits boat.
2. This is not a negative on Outerlimits, I wish I could own one; Skater has had boat-owner operation deaths too, but I think Skater builds the safest and best catamaran in the market place today. I know what a Products Liabiltiy attorney would say, and it isn't pretty, and I am not getting into a legal debate on product design (is there a more feasible safe design?), and assumption of risk.
2. Was the driver trained to operate an boat of this size, power, and speed before purchase? After purchase? Other than writing the big check, what are the qualifications for the purchaser/operator? Safe boating course? Performance boating school? How much seat time prior to the accident? Ect.
These are the questions that will be asked of any manufacturer in the near future, if not right now, that will kill offshore performance boating as we know it due to personal injury lawyers, product liability lawyers --- due to death and injury when operating high-performance boats.
I am a lawyer who will NOT take a personal injury case, but I can clearly see that since boat speeds have increased, the reported cases seem to be appearing more rapidly.
I like boating, I like racing people on the weekend, and I do not want that right to do so taken away by legislation or the courts, due to tragedy(s) like this.
Opinions?
I do not want to see or hear of anyone injured or killed boating, my prayers for those involved.
1. Why did the top of the boat delaminate? Design defect? Manufacturing defect? This is not an acceptable answer - it is an epoxy boat (or a vinylester resin boat) that hit a wave at 130mph+ and rolled. Design should be made for this type of occurrence, it is not the first roll with an Outerlimits boat.
2. This is not a negative on Outerlimits, I wish I could own one; Skater has had boat-owner operation deaths too, but I think Skater builds the safest and best catamaran in the market place today. I know what a Products Liabiltiy attorney would say, and it isn't pretty, and I am not getting into a legal debate on product design (is there a more feasible safe design?), and assumption of risk.
2. Was the driver trained to operate an boat of this size, power, and speed before purchase? After purchase? Other than writing the big check, what are the qualifications for the purchaser/operator? Safe boating course? Performance boating school? How much seat time prior to the accident? Ect.
These are the questions that will be asked of any manufacturer in the near future, if not right now, that will kill offshore performance boating as we know it due to personal injury lawyers, product liability lawyers --- due to death and injury when operating high-performance boats.
I am a lawyer who will NOT take a personal injury case, but I can clearly see that since boat speeds have increased, the reported cases seem to be appearing more rapidly.
I like boating, I like racing people on the weekend, and I do not want that right to do so taken away by legislation or the courts, due to tragedy(s) like this.
Opinions?
I do not want to see or hear of anyone injured or killed boating, my prayers for those involved.
06-09-2009, 05:00 AM
#34
Registered
I want to know more about this accident;
1. Why did the top of the boat delaminate? Design defect? Manufacturing defect? This is not an acceptable answer - it is an epoxy boat (or a vinylester resin boat) that hit a wave at 130mph+ and rolled. Design should be made for this type of occurrence, it is not the first roll with an Outerlimits boat.
2. This is not a negative on Outerlimits, I wish I could own one; Skater has had boat-owner operation deaths too, but I think Skater builds the safest and best catamaran in the market place today. I know what a Products Liabiltiy attorney would say, and it isn't pretty, and I am not getting into a legal debate on product design (is there a more feasible safe design?), and assumption of risk.
2. Was the driver trained to operate an boat of this size, power, and speed before purchase? After purchase? Other than writing the big check, what are the qualifications for the purchaser/operator? Safe boating course? Performance boating school? How much seat time prior to the accident? Ect.
These are the questions that will be asked of any manufacturer in the near future, if not right now, that will kill offshore performance boating as we know it due to personal injury lawyers, product liability lawyers --- due to death and injury when operating high-performance boats.
I am a lawyer who will NOT take a personal injury case, but I can clearly see that since boat speeds have increased, the reported cases seem to be appearing more rapidly.
I like boating, I like racing people on the weekend, and I do not want that right to do so taken away by legislation or the courts, due to tragedy(s) like this.
Opinions?
I do not want to see or hear of anyone injured or killed boating, my prayers for those involved.
1. Why did the top of the boat delaminate? Design defect? Manufacturing defect? This is not an acceptable answer - it is an epoxy boat (or a vinylester resin boat) that hit a wave at 130mph+ and rolled. Design should be made for this type of occurrence, it is not the first roll with an Outerlimits boat.
2. This is not a negative on Outerlimits, I wish I could own one; Skater has had boat-owner operation deaths too, but I think Skater builds the safest and best catamaran in the market place today. I know what a Products Liabiltiy attorney would say, and it isn't pretty, and I am not getting into a legal debate on product design (is there a more feasible safe design?), and assumption of risk.
2. Was the driver trained to operate an boat of this size, power, and speed before purchase? After purchase? Other than writing the big check, what are the qualifications for the purchaser/operator? Safe boating course? Performance boating school? How much seat time prior to the accident? Ect.
These are the questions that will be asked of any manufacturer in the near future, if not right now, that will kill offshore performance boating as we know it due to personal injury lawyers, product liability lawyers --- due to death and injury when operating high-performance boats.
I am a lawyer who will NOT take a personal injury case, but I can clearly see that since boat speeds have increased, the reported cases seem to be appearing more rapidly.
I like boating, I like racing people on the weekend, and I do not want that right to do so taken away by legislation or the courts, due to tragedy(s) like this.
Opinions?
I do not want to see or hear of anyone injured or killed boating, my prayers for those involved.
Boat flipped, people died, Lawyers sued anyone they could think of
Boat was an OL and was in remarkably good condition after the accident
Back end busted up but had now been rebuilt I am told
Did not matter what happened or how
Lawyer’s descended on us and spent 2 years trying to find a way suck everyone dry
Worse, the litigation ended the event and took away the largest single outside income producer for Make a Wish Of Michigan
First phone call from an attorney on the accident was just a few hours after it happened. The feeding frenzy came with calls from attorneys all over the country trying to get in on the action
Driver and Throttle man were sued by the families for many many millions
Driver and throttle man sued my partner and I for not keeping them from being sued
Waivers were signed and the boat was built well. It doesn’t matter, a legal action is certain to happen if an accident occurs
The stupid questions I was asked in deposition is proof that no lawyer has a clue except how to drain money
One of the questions I was asked is "how fast are the boats in your logo going"
I was asked “what made me an expert in offshore boats” and after I explained to them how many offshore boats I owned and that I had put on many Poker Runs and Boat races. It made me wonder what qualified them (lawyers) to sit in judgment of anyone since they were totally clueless on offshore boating evidenced by the multitude of stupid statements and questions
The landscape for offshore HAS changed , we need more owners using more common sense when it comes to safety and boat ownership, and we need less attorneys walking this earth looking for the next payday on the backs of those who have unfortunate ACCIDENTS (not on purposes)
Very soon all the insurance companies are going to take the position that if you are in an organized event your insurance is void (used to be only pertaining to racing) many insurers are already exempting “Poker Runs”. Two things have ALREADY changed this sport forever Accidents and Litigation. The good news is that many boat manufacturers have worked hard to elevate safety and so have the event promoters but sometimes accidents are just that, AN ACCIDENT!
We need to learn from every accident but the one thing we don’t need to learn is how much money and litigation it takes to ruin a sport. We already know the answers to this
I have written much on this subject. Everytime an accident happens the sport gets safer in my opinion (we learn and make changes) there is still much more we can do, but lawsuits dont bring people back, it just lines lawyers pockets and makes familiys rich on the death of there loved ones (how demeaning)
Last edited by boatme; 06-09-2009 at 05:07 AM.
06-09-2009, 05:55 AM
#35
VIP Member
VIP Member
Been there, done that
Boat flipped, people died, Lawyers sued anyone they could think of
Boat was an OL and was in remarkably good condition after the accident
Back end busted up but had now been rebuilt I am told
Did not matter what happened or how
Lawyer’s descended on us and spent 2 years trying to find a way suck everyone dry
Worse, the litigation ended the event and took away the largest single outside income producer for Make a Wish Of Michigan
First phone call from an attorney on the accident was just a few hours after it happened. The feeding frenzy came with calls from attorneys all over the country trying to get in on the action
Driver and Throttle man were sued by the families for many many millions
Driver and throttle man sued my partner and I for not keeping them from being sued
Waivers were signed and the boat was built well. It doesn’t matter, a legal action is certain to happen if an accident occurs
The stupid questions I was asked in deposition is proof that no lawyer has a clue except how to drain money
One of the questions I was asked is "how fast are the boats in your logo going"
I was asked “what made me an expert in offshore boats” and after I explained to them how many offshore boats I owned and that I had put on many Poker Runs and Boat races. It made me wonder what qualified them (lawyers) to sit in judgment of anyone since they were totally clueless on offshore boating evidenced by the multitude of stupid statements and questions
The landscape for offshore HAS changed , we need more owners using more common sense when it comes to safety and boat ownership, and we need less attorneys walking this earth looking for the next payday on the backs of those who have unfortunate ACCIDENTS (not on purposes)
Very soon all the insurance companies are going to take the position that if you are in an organized event your insurance is void (used to be only pertaining to racing) many insurers are already exempting “Poker Runs”. Two things have ALREADY changed this sport forever Accidents and Litigation. The good news is that many boat manufacturers have worked hard to elevate safety and so have the event promoters but sometimes accidents are just that, AN ACCIDENT!
We need to learn from every accident but the one thing we don’t need to learn is how much money and litigation it takes to ruin a sport. We already know the answers to this
I have written much on this subject. Everytime an accident happens the sport gets safer in my opinion (we learn and make changes) there is still much more we can do, but lawsuits dont bring people back, it just lines lawyers pockets and makes familiys rich on the death of there loved ones (how demeaning)
Boat flipped, people died, Lawyers sued anyone they could think of
Boat was an OL and was in remarkably good condition after the accident
Back end busted up but had now been rebuilt I am told
Did not matter what happened or how
Lawyer’s descended on us and spent 2 years trying to find a way suck everyone dry
Worse, the litigation ended the event and took away the largest single outside income producer for Make a Wish Of Michigan
First phone call from an attorney on the accident was just a few hours after it happened. The feeding frenzy came with calls from attorneys all over the country trying to get in on the action
Driver and Throttle man were sued by the families for many many millions
Driver and throttle man sued my partner and I for not keeping them from being sued
Waivers were signed and the boat was built well. It doesn’t matter, a legal action is certain to happen if an accident occurs
The stupid questions I was asked in deposition is proof that no lawyer has a clue except how to drain money
One of the questions I was asked is "how fast are the boats in your logo going"
I was asked “what made me an expert in offshore boats” and after I explained to them how many offshore boats I owned and that I had put on many Poker Runs and Boat races. It made me wonder what qualified them (lawyers) to sit in judgment of anyone since they were totally clueless on offshore boating evidenced by the multitude of stupid statements and questions
The landscape for offshore HAS changed , we need more owners using more common sense when it comes to safety and boat ownership, and we need less attorneys walking this earth looking for the next payday on the backs of those who have unfortunate ACCIDENTS (not on purposes)
Very soon all the insurance companies are going to take the position that if you are in an organized event your insurance is void (used to be only pertaining to racing) many insurers are already exempting “Poker Runs”. Two things have ALREADY changed this sport forever Accidents and Litigation. The good news is that many boat manufacturers have worked hard to elevate safety and so have the event promoters but sometimes accidents are just that, AN ACCIDENT!
We need to learn from every accident but the one thing we don’t need to learn is how much money and litigation it takes to ruin a sport. We already know the answers to this
I have written much on this subject. Everytime an accident happens the sport gets safer in my opinion (we learn and make changes) there is still much more we can do, but lawsuits dont bring people back, it just lines lawyers pockets and makes familiys rich on the death of there loved ones (how demeaning)
06-09-2009, 06:35 AM
#36
Registered
Even when the Manufacturers make improvements (Which they all have) To use your words "here comes the lawyers, and the lawsuits"
My partner in our event, owns a performance boat insurance company He will tell you that the insurance companies are fully aware and keep an eye on all these web sites
I think everyone in the industry is fully aware. We as promoters have had safety summits, and the manufacturers are always working for a better safer product
But ridicules lawsuits are what has taken the sport down. the insurance companies know if you get a nick on your boat at an event someone is going to want to sue
Thus, at the end of the road in all of this, It can be argued that everyone is protecting themselves from the legal system. No offence to you, but it is quite honestly, the lawyers that are slowly ending this sport for many people.
Smarty, I am happy to discuss it with you at any time. It would be nice to have a lawyer on the side of promoting the sport not tearing it apart.
Marc
My partner in our event, owns a performance boat insurance company He will tell you that the insurance companies are fully aware and keep an eye on all these web sites
I think everyone in the industry is fully aware. We as promoters have had safety summits, and the manufacturers are always working for a better safer product
But ridicules lawsuits are what has taken the sport down. the insurance companies know if you get a nick on your boat at an event someone is going to want to sue
Thus, at the end of the road in all of this, It can be argued that everyone is protecting themselves from the legal system. No offence to you, but it is quite honestly, the lawyers that are slowly ending this sport for many people.
Smarty, I am happy to discuss it with you at any time. It would be nice to have a lawyer on the side of promoting the sport not tearing it apart.
Marc
06-09-2009, 09:02 AM
#37
Registered
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Very Sad.... This guy was real excited about his new boat.... Of course the important thing is that everyones ok BUT.... That Just SUCKS!!!! 
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/o...sl41-info.html
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/o...sl41-info.html
06-09-2009, 09:09 AM
#38
Charter Mod
Charter Member
06-09-2009, 09:16 AM
#39
Registered
Brandon I am with you
I have been in an open cat with seat belts and I am here to tell you I would be afraid to have an accident while I was strapped into an open boat No belts for me in an open cat
Conversely when in a canopied boat I would not ride it unless I was strapped into my seat I don’t want to be a ping Pong Ball bouncing inside
I have been in an open cat with seat belts and I am here to tell you I would be afraid to have an accident while I was strapped into an open boat No belts for me in an open cat
Conversely when in a canopied boat I would not ride it unless I was strapped into my seat I don’t want to be a ping Pong Ball bouncing inside
06-09-2009, 09:39 AM
#40
Easily Distracted
Platinum Member
I'll take my 5 point harness please. Having been there, done that, I still wouldn't want to do it again unless I was strapped in. I have zero interest in getting in a boat that goes over 100 without being strapped in...... with or without a canopy.
It can be argued either way ... we know people who have been killed strapped in and we know people who have been killed getting tossed. I think bottom line is you have to do what makes you feel comfortable.
It can be argued either way ... we know people who have been killed strapped in and we know people who have been killed getting tossed. I think bottom line is you have to do what makes you feel comfortable.
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