It has never been our policy to get involved in these posts but I feel compelled to bring a few facts to light. Reputable custom engine builders that have been in business for any length of time can relate to the fact that there are customers that are a pleasure to work with, that work closely with the engine builder for the success of their projects and listen to and follow instructions in the correct operation of the engine built for their particular application. They also know when a customer sends in an existing engine that it may or may not have the parts they would normally pick had they had the option to start from scratch. They also know that there are customers that don't listen, hear what they want to hear, fabricate events that never took place and are impossible to make happy no matter the effort put forth. Customers that make them wonder "what was I thinking" when they agreed to do the project in the first place. I have been in business for 35 years and have to say I have had mostly pleasant experiences and positive results and a few absolute nightmares as customers. This is certainly one of the nightmares. I could go on and on listing dates, times, etc. of documented emails and phone calls but that would be ridiculous, unprofessional, and extremely time consuming considering the vast amounts of postings and emails that now fill two large notebooks.
At the beginning of this project, as is customary, a projected estimate of costs was supplied. This estimate was per engine and has a note that specifically states the total is for the itemized items and does not include any items, if any, added as the project progressed. This estimate included .903 lifters, piston oilers, .120 wall pushrods, coated custom J-E pistons, casidium pins, etc., etc., and were not "added on".
The work was started only after the initial deposit was received giving the o.k. to begin the project.
The heads were 98cc, 41cc dish in piston, .051 gaskets, and .005 deck clearance when finished.
The flow figures were supplied and a knowledgeable person owning a flow bench and familiar with porting knows that numbers vary bench to bench and porting huge numbers into a set of heads does not necessarily produce the best power in the end project.
I have installed five water/meth systems and when operated properly are reliable and can provide a good safety net against detonation. But the key words here are OPERATED PROPERLY. The engines were tested for a total ot 7 days on the dyno with straight water, water/meth, straight meth, and race gas and in varying amounts. We found the lowest EGT, best air/fuel ratios, and lowest innercooler discharge temperatures with a 50/50 water/meth mix. Straight meth was not good. Conversations, emails, and posts admit that the system was off entirely when the engines were damaged and that when the system was run, on several occasions straight meth was used. I spoke with Rudy on numerous occasions regarding the system setup to try to avert any potential disasters in light of the fact that the customer did not seem to fully understand its use and importance. I charged for only 2 days of dyno time because that is what I quoted for. The additional work was to make every effort to ensure the success of the project, especially in light of the fact they were shipping out of state and I would not be there to do the initial adjustments that are most often required once installed in the boat.
Our dyno is a Superflow SF901 and engines such as these are tested at steady state rpms as well since this is how they are most often operated. Printouts are not produced for this testing, only the standard dyno pulls at 300 rpm per second. I have logged thousands of miles of seat times in these boats and have strived to simulate the loads seen in the boat on the dyno. I personally test every engine we build, rest assured, part throttle load testing was done in this case, as with all we build. Although this type of testing does not generate a printout it is not necessary. Usually these part throttle loads have somewhat rich air/fuel ratios and such was the case with these engines.
The engines are built, not even shipped and then the trouble starts. There are reasons that some drugs are not meant to be mixed with alcohol. Complaints usch as but not limited to:
**Having to pay for shipping crates, although he could have sent his engines in crates large enough to return 2 complete supercharged engines in or arranged for pickup. Many if not most of our clients come from all over the country, and some from out of the country, to watch their engines on the dyno and take them home. **We didn't ship his old superchargers Pickup and shipping arrangements were all made from his end using his Fed Ex account. This was supposed to save him money but delayed the shipping for days waiting for shipping labels that never showed up. Finally shipped out on our UPS account just to get them where they were supposed to go. The cost was the same to him. **Damaged oil tube when the engines arrive. They were mounted on his cradles and not what I would have preferred to use but unfortunately sometimes things do get damaged in shipment. I had Eickert send a replacement but it was not the correct length. I offered to machine one expedited at no charge. Apparently it was much more gratifying to post as the victim than accept free help repairing the tube. The number of emails sent offering to take care of this is ridiculous, but all that was written in the posts was how the engine builder wouldn't help period and seemed to missing entirely. **Allegedly the tuneup was wrong. Everything was set on the dyno but his emails state he thought the engines loped too much. They are 16-71 superchargers and once "the kids" started changing everything they didn't have a clue how to get back to square one. At this point we had to request all communications be done by email only so that my recommendations would be in writing and could be referenced back to. Again the posts never mentioned any of this, only that the engine builder is missing in action and could care less.
At the conclusion of the project, and before the engines were installed , dyno sheets, build sheets, cam cards, etc. were provided along with instructions as to the operation of the water/meth system, timing, boost, water pressure, etc. This is one email date I will mention. On February 23rd at 12:30pm I sent an email that spells out the correct operating parameters and what his responsibilites were. This email I'm sure will never show up in its entirety anywhere on this site because it also spells out our effort to repair the oil tube, the blower situation, our desire to communicate by email to avoid his confusion, and our continuing desire despite all of the slanderous postings that his project be successful. if anyone would like me to forward this email I would be more than happy to oblige.
So he gets the tube fixed, gets the tune-up back to where it's supposed to be, and posts as much slanderous, fictitious stuff as he can come up with. Amazing! Another victim of the crazed engine builder! You gotta watch out for those guys!
Support was offered via email after the engines were installed and up until his decisionwas made to [B]turn off the water/meth[B] things were progressing well according to his emails, claiming 145+ at part throttle. I don't spend much time on this site but I'm sure there weren't many posts during this time since there was not money owed.
The engines were damaged due to the his own admission of turning the water/meth off for pure conservation purposes. He had a big race later, was using up too much meth and didn't want to run out before then. Pictures were sent and posted showing detonation damage to the heads and pistons. Emails and posts were sent stating the heads were being welded and machined. Detonation damage caused by incorrect operation is not covered on any type of warranty that I am aware of.
Friendly emails are suddenly showing up daily re-
questing help to fix this mess. Suddenly we have a nice guy. Wants to make sure I have a good weekend, a good vacation, everything went o.k. at the doctors today. Wow! He needs pistons, the same as the last ones., rings, gaskets, casidium pins (not sure why on the pins), valves. Then things are not moving fast enough where he has the engine. New email wants to know if he can load it all up and bring it to Tucson and he can stay in a hotel while we put them together? Not fast enough for him. Last I heard he pulled everything from the last builder (lucky guy) and is looking for another engine builder to victimize.
Now he has the parts (less the last set of pistons) and it's time to pay for the damage he's done. Emails shows up wanting to know if our wire transfer info is still the same. His wife is out of town but he'll send this over to her and she'll take care of it. Suddenly the nice guy is gone, the friendly emails stop, and the ugly posts show up again. Now his posts say he shouldn't have to pay! Was he willing to pay until his wife saw the invoice or is he trying to get something for free? Thsi is the reason correspondence was done by email. Documentation !!
Now that it's time to pay allegedly everthing done was wrong from the beginning. Allegedly the piston design, allegedly the compression, allegedly the tune-up, allegedly I said they would last 200 hours (Never would I say that!), allegedly I changed my mind on the timing and when the water/meth should come on, allegedly I shouldn't have used his Big Chief heads (would he have spent more money?), and allegedly I was going to pay for the parts. And that I allegedly even admitted to all this. Amazing!! I didn't detonate them! So on, and on, and on.
We are a eight person shop , building and rebuilding 150 to 175 engines per year, half being high preformance marine engines, most supercharged, along with installation and rigging. We also provide component repair, custom machining, i.e. cylinder heads, block, rotating assemblies, EFI tuning, carburetor modifications and calibration.
I would be very interested to hear from more of the engine builders, boat builders, transmission builders, vendors, etc.,
other than the ones that I've already spoken to, that have had experience with this particular customer. Posting your comments is not necessary, unless you feel compelled to, a phone call or email is fine. For any business owner that has not had the displeasure of the experience, do yourself a favor, steer clear, avoid, and beware!
The Evil Toy Maker
RHP (Runnin Hot Plot) thickens.........
Larry's definately one of the good guys. He went out of his way for me a couple times and hadnt even built what i brought him to recalibrate.Its sad to see him have to come on here and feel the need to defend himself.All you have to do is have one conversation with him and you can tell he knows whats what.You dont stay in business that long buy screwing stuff up. His reputation in these parts speaks volumes.
Last edited by JH358; 08-01-2009 at 06:58 PM.
RHR138 has told several people that he had the meth off thus the reason why he torched the pistons and heads.
This is all about the $3,000 bill for the parts that he doesnt want to pay,so he has decided to drag a reputible engine builder thru the mud.The best thing he can do is accept that offer on his boat as is -and go get a canoe.
I am glad to see the builder come on here and respond. Certainly gives some insight as to the whole situation. Like I said previously, this sucks for everyone involved.
Running Hot Racing, for the record, I sympathize for your engine problems. I have empathy for anyone and everyone that has an unexpected interruption in life.
You have made contribution to this web site, regardless of how your presentation is received, from time to time, you have made contribution.
Let it be known, I pride myself as being sincere, honest and credit worthy as I know possible.
Your extensive engine thread has posts that require clarification,
My post # 81, was not intended to offend you or mitigate the failure in any way. You and I had amicably spoken on the phone enough that it seemed appropriate to offer a bit of humor to a serious subject.
Your post #82 was logical and well received.
My post # 85 was "LOL" or "Lots of luck" and said without malice.
Your post # 86 has me seriously misquoted. (It is understood the tools of this web site can create such activity. But, it is something few literate persons would engage.)
You reference my ethics regarding Leon D, please bring that person here to explain. Subject to, if I owe anyone something, let it be heard.
Post # 88 was not made by myself, from this computer or anyone else here. Please look at my post ledger: It will be seen that "LOL" was redundant to post #85. However,both post #85 and #88 state the same number of views and posts with a substantial time difference. Perhaps the only Authority that has access to those controls is a Moderator. Moderator, please research and report your findings.
Mr. Peto, Thank you for presenting the facts as stated. This industry has and is suffering and in my opinion, deserves cohesion when possible.
I see this is fixing to get badddddddddddddddddd
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