Old Shadow Hull
03-05-2002, 03:11 PM
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Old Shadow Hull
Well rich I'll be polite on this one , but the jack clark\thriller 35' cat was never a copy of Any of yours nor Georges' associated boats. Came off of a fresh piece of paper on the drawing board. (oh have original of that too if you'd like a look see) (SORRY NO ROYALTIES OWED) And was built fresh off of the jig frames up All in wood my friend. (have pics to prove it if youd like to see.) I might think you were just a itsy bit upset it was done w\o your (wonderous knowledge and wisdom Hence best explained off by You as a COPY (NOT)
And no T2X fans this isn't a chip on my shoulder (well only a little one) But I'm not a huge fan of Mr. personality here. Who considers my father as no more than a SHIPWRIGHT Heheh. The very shipwright who hand built all of Mr. master boat builders conquest boats at our facility in South Carolina. Who already Earned a good name doing other Opc race boats & such in New Jersey. And please don't take this as an insult to Mr. T2X Who I Do believe to be a very Knowledgeable, and have much respect for. I just feel impelled to uphold my Dad's name in this instance as any son would. Also in being fair would like to add that rich was very much more involved in the tech aspect of these boats, where as we were more involved in the Building & design aspect.
Anyhow I suppose thats all in the past but just wanted to post a few pics I have of several of the boats mentioned here I have a few of the old chris-cats and shadows but not many. I have a ton more where these came from & will eventually post alot more Please enjoy.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/qst_4_it/...c=ph%26.view=t
Ken Adams Jr.
Quest Marine Inc.
And no T2X fans this isn't a chip on my shoulder (well only a little one) But I'm not a huge fan of Mr. personality here. Who considers my father as no more than a SHIPWRIGHT Heheh. The very shipwright who hand built all of Mr. master boat builders conquest boats at our facility in South Carolina. Who already Earned a good name doing other Opc race boats & such in New Jersey. And please don't take this as an insult to Mr. T2X Who I Do believe to be a very Knowledgeable, and have much respect for. I just feel impelled to uphold my Dad's name in this instance as any son would. Also in being fair would like to add that rich was very much more involved in the tech aspect of these boats, where as we were more involved in the Building & design aspect.
Anyhow I suppose thats all in the past but just wanted to post a few pics I have of several of the boats mentioned here I have a few of the old chris-cats and shadows but not many. I have a ton more where these came from & will eventually post alot more Please enjoy.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/qst_4_it/...c=ph%26.view=t
Ken Adams Jr.
Quest Marine Inc.
03-05-2002, 03:25 PM
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Just wanted to add to this very interesting tread.......George Linder also designed a 25 foot cat for Checkmate that not to many people know about..i don't think anyway....It was a wood plug that Checkmate had to finish..but a Linder design....Only 6 or 7 were ever built! From what i recall it was also a very good ruff water cat, but not as fast as the 24 Skater...A couple of them were sold by Marty O'Neil on Long Island. Anybody ever seen one?
03-05-2002, 03:31 PM
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convincor,
If you notice in some of those pics I've posted there is a picture of that plug that we built & george designed. Thats A great pic of that boat too. I think we have the same pic somewhere. Thanks for posting it.
Ken
If you notice in some of those pics I've posted there is a picture of that plug that we built & george designed. Thats A great pic of that boat too. I think we have the same pic somewhere. Thanks for posting it.
Ken
03-05-2002, 03:34 PM
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Those are some great pic`s of history of this sport.
Thank you for showing them
Mike
Thank you for showing them
Mike
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2014 OPA-APBA National Champion Class 7 .Hauling Trash 725.
2014 OPA-APBA National Champion Class 7 .Hauling Trash 725.
03-05-2002, 05:01 PM
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Hi Ken:
I learned the name "shipwright" from your dad who told me he was trained as one as a kid..... I thought it was a compliment. I also called him a "craftsman".... I still think that's a compliment, and he is the last of a vanishing breed.
The 35 Jaguar was, in fact, made from a running wooden plug...no argument and , as such, had to be made from a clean sheet of paper. Your Dad can draw blueprints with the best of them. I clearly remember that plug sinking in its first and only race, after which a mold was made. A cursory glance will also tell you that it has lines which closely resemble what a Chris Cat would look like if you scaled it up to 35 feet (It was built for a guy who previously owned and raced....a Chris Cat). It sure isn't a scaled up Quest tunnel boat...nor is it a variation of the boats your dad built for
Jim Caldwell (later Fountain plant manager). Certainly it has different lines and sponsons than a Conquest. I'm sure you will agree that it didn't work when stretched to 40 and 45 feet.
The facts about that boat are as follows: Ken Sr. signed a contract to build boats for Conquest Marine (my company) and did so in shops in Monck's Corner, and later St Stephens, South Carolina. While building the early boats he contracted on the side with Jack Clark, to build another boat in another shop in South Carolina. Ken also built and repaired his Quest Tunnels simultaneously.
Conquest sprang from an idea I had as an alternative to the fibreglass boats we built at Shadow. Ken had no involvement during the Shadow/Chris era. I preferred the flexibility that wood offered in allowing changes and improvements, based on experiences from my tunnel boat days. I also didn't want to "marry" another set of molds. I was impressed with the way that Steve Stepp's wooden 38' Velocity open boat was constructed (wood/fibreglass composite) and I thought we could improve upon it. We found Kenny Sr. who had moved from New Jersey to S.C. shortly before( As I recall he had been badly screwed by a customer on a Cat project with Jimmy Caldwell, who I raced against for years and know quite well. That Cat featured a tunnel a grown man could stand up under and looked like a cathedral ). Ken had a good reputation as a wood craftsman (Wood "God" if you prefer), we also spoke to some inboard hydro builders, and Rick Adamscyk of RAM tunnel fame. After this process, Ken sr. was chosen as the guy and we (I) capitalized a shop, materials, etc. Kenny's first task was to make some sample composites. which I still have. He laminated Carbon fiber and wood, Carbon fiber, aluminum and wood, tri ax and wood etc, until we settled (together) on the final specs. This was a free flowing process including George Linder, Ken Sr. and myself. The boat I (Me, myself, alone) most wanted to build using this process was "Rolling Thunder" a 32 cat, which featured four Formula 1 (Then IOGP) 2 liter mercs, and my relationship with Merc made this happen. I conceived that project from the ground up, before I met Ken. I also mandated the single step sponsons and participated, in detail, with George designing pad widths, dyhedral and styling. Ken communicated with George on a daily basis on design items and spoke to me primarily on financial issues. I made monthly trips to South Carolina to review progress.
Apparently Ken feels that he didn't get enough credit for those boats... and that's a shame...because he did an outstanding job. He and his sons, in fact, built every Conquest, including the Checkmate plug pictured. Ken was involved primarily in structural, but frequently in design meetings. There were plenty of things in those designs Ken disagreed with ...but built anyway. The boats were certainly the result of collaboration, but not necessarily a democracy....... that's business......... and life I guess.
I sold every one of those boats in advance which meant that I sat down with racers...one from France who was impossible to understand..and "brainstormed" (clean sheet of paper... length, width, engines, drives, etc) each hull from the ground up. (I performed this same function with the Shadows as well) These specs were then turned into blue prints by George, lofted by Ken, and built at Ken's shop. George sold the 37' Chris Craft plug and the Checkmate plug (which none of us liked as I recall)
One final thing..There was a 13' "Conquest Kitten" sport boat plug made, which I decided was too dangerous to make a mold from based on the Cougar Cub lawsuits that were floating around.
Conquests were built from 1984-1988. The Names Conquest Marine and Quest Racing were coincidental.
I hope this clears up that chapter.
T2x
Ps Ken Jr. Give my best to your Dad. He is a huge talent and we couldn't have done it without him....nuff said?
I learned the name "shipwright" from your dad who told me he was trained as one as a kid..... I thought it was a compliment. I also called him a "craftsman".... I still think that's a compliment, and he is the last of a vanishing breed.
The 35 Jaguar was, in fact, made from a running wooden plug...no argument and , as such, had to be made from a clean sheet of paper. Your Dad can draw blueprints with the best of them. I clearly remember that plug sinking in its first and only race, after which a mold was made. A cursory glance will also tell you that it has lines which closely resemble what a Chris Cat would look like if you scaled it up to 35 feet (It was built for a guy who previously owned and raced....a Chris Cat). It sure isn't a scaled up Quest tunnel boat...nor is it a variation of the boats your dad built for
Jim Caldwell (later Fountain plant manager). Certainly it has different lines and sponsons than a Conquest. I'm sure you will agree that it didn't work when stretched to 40 and 45 feet.
The facts about that boat are as follows: Ken Sr. signed a contract to build boats for Conquest Marine (my company) and did so in shops in Monck's Corner, and later St Stephens, South Carolina. While building the early boats he contracted on the side with Jack Clark, to build another boat in another shop in South Carolina. Ken also built and repaired his Quest Tunnels simultaneously.
Conquest sprang from an idea I had as an alternative to the fibreglass boats we built at Shadow. Ken had no involvement during the Shadow/Chris era. I preferred the flexibility that wood offered in allowing changes and improvements, based on experiences from my tunnel boat days. I also didn't want to "marry" another set of molds. I was impressed with the way that Steve Stepp's wooden 38' Velocity open boat was constructed (wood/fibreglass composite) and I thought we could improve upon it. We found Kenny Sr. who had moved from New Jersey to S.C. shortly before( As I recall he had been badly screwed by a customer on a Cat project with Jimmy Caldwell, who I raced against for years and know quite well. That Cat featured a tunnel a grown man could stand up under and looked like a cathedral ). Ken had a good reputation as a wood craftsman (Wood "God" if you prefer), we also spoke to some inboard hydro builders, and Rick Adamscyk of RAM tunnel fame. After this process, Ken sr. was chosen as the guy and we (I) capitalized a shop, materials, etc. Kenny's first task was to make some sample composites. which I still have. He laminated Carbon fiber and wood, Carbon fiber, aluminum and wood, tri ax and wood etc, until we settled (together) on the final specs. This was a free flowing process including George Linder, Ken Sr. and myself. The boat I (Me, myself, alone) most wanted to build using this process was "Rolling Thunder" a 32 cat, which featured four Formula 1 (Then IOGP) 2 liter mercs, and my relationship with Merc made this happen. I conceived that project from the ground up, before I met Ken. I also mandated the single step sponsons and participated, in detail, with George designing pad widths, dyhedral and styling. Ken communicated with George on a daily basis on design items and spoke to me primarily on financial issues. I made monthly trips to South Carolina to review progress.
Apparently Ken feels that he didn't get enough credit for those boats... and that's a shame...because he did an outstanding job. He and his sons, in fact, built every Conquest, including the Checkmate plug pictured. Ken was involved primarily in structural, but frequently in design meetings. There were plenty of things in those designs Ken disagreed with ...but built anyway. The boats were certainly the result of collaboration, but not necessarily a democracy....... that's business......... and life I guess.
I sold every one of those boats in advance which meant that I sat down with racers...one from France who was impossible to understand..and "brainstormed" (clean sheet of paper... length, width, engines, drives, etc) each hull from the ground up. (I performed this same function with the Shadows as well) These specs were then turned into blue prints by George, lofted by Ken, and built at Ken's shop. George sold the 37' Chris Craft plug and the Checkmate plug (which none of us liked as I recall)
One final thing..There was a 13' "Conquest Kitten" sport boat plug made, which I decided was too dangerous to make a mold from based on the Cougar Cub lawsuits that were floating around.
Conquests were built from 1984-1988. The Names Conquest Marine and Quest Racing were coincidental.
I hope this clears up that chapter.
T2x
Ps Ken Jr. Give my best to your Dad. He is a huge talent and we couldn't have done it without him....nuff said?
Last edited by T2x; 03-05-2002 at 05:26 PM.
03-05-2002, 05:36 PM
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Rich,
This is a seperate thread...the other Shadow thread is still there...on page 2 I think. Ken Jr. started this one.
UPDATE...There was another thread which I replied to but is now gone...I wonder what happened to it????
Sean
This is a seperate thread...the other Shadow thread is still there...on page 2 I think. Ken Jr. started this one.
UPDATE...There was another thread which I replied to but is now gone...I wonder what happened to it????
Sean
Last edited by Sean; 03-05-2002 at 05:38 PM.
03-05-2002, 07:37 PM
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T2X RE:Chris Cat 37' plug
T2X-
You said "George sold the 37' Chris Craft plug". This was a running plug? How did it perform? Or is the result obvious since they never made any more.
You said "George sold the 37' Chris Craft plug". This was a running plug? How did it perform? Or is the result obvious since they never made any more.
03-05-2002, 09:47 PM
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Actually the plug ran pretty well...If a bit bow high. Tim Ciasulli and Harry Wellman ran it in one or two races. It was never meant to race, but rather to have a few test runs and then go into the mold shop....therefore it was quite lightly constructed. In spite of that it led the first race it entered.... At that time Chris Craft was having second thoughts about the whole racing thing...and had some financial issues as well...so the project was abandoned. I believe Tim still owns the boat and converted it for pleasure use.
Interesting side light..... After it's "racing" career, the boat was returned for some modifications....... Ken Adams was doing some work on it and opened up the bow..... He found that Harry Wellman had foamed in old cylinder heads and other steel objects.....as ballast. Somehow this hardware didn't blast through the deck or bottom.... That is probably a better tribute to Ken's work than anything I could write.
Chris Craft later attempted to stay at the top level of racing by "sponsoring" the Jesse James 35 foot Conquest......This resulted in the confusing signage on the boat "Chris Craft by Conquest".
Interesting side light..... After it's "racing" career, the boat was returned for some modifications....... Ken Adams was doing some work on it and opened up the bow..... He found that Harry Wellman had foamed in old cylinder heads and other steel objects.....as ballast. Somehow this hardware didn't blast through the deck or bottom.... That is probably a better tribute to Ken's work than anything I could write.
Chris Craft later attempted to stay at the top level of racing by "sponsoring" the Jesse James 35 foot Conquest......This resulted in the confusing signage on the boat "Chris Craft by Conquest".
