Which was better SBI Miami/APBA Daytona
05-05-2002, 06:52 PM
#151
GOT MERC?
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Ruben,BG,
Your both missing the point, Why have a rule book if nobady is obeying it? If all racers wanted to police themselves they
would all be racing with john. Look at the numbers 28 Miami 73 Daytona. Do the math! Real racers want someone trying to keep
everybody honest not just looking for a pay day. BG if you were
not looking for an answer then don't ask for one
Also ruben do all NASCAR drivers sit down in a big huddle and agree on only
running 190 MPH at Talledega? I don't think so, so your comment
on MPH and RPM is ridiculos! If you call that racing then you are not a true racer. I have personal experiance racing with both gentlemen. How would you feel if you dragged your 500K Super Vee to Point Pleasant N.J. kicked everybodies ASS honestly andwhen it was time to collect a trophy and check there wasn't any? Sorry we combined classes at the last minute BULL****!
SBI at it's finest
Your both missing the point, Why have a rule book if nobady is obeying it? If all racers wanted to police themselves they
would all be racing with john. Look at the numbers 28 Miami 73 Daytona. Do the math! Real racers want someone trying to keep
everybody honest not just looking for a pay day. BG if you were
not looking for an answer then don't ask for one
Also ruben do all NASCAR drivers sit down in a big huddle and agree on onlyrunning 190 MPH at Talledega? I don't think so, so your comment
on MPH and RPM is ridiculos! If you call that racing then you are not a true racer. I have personal experiance racing with both gentlemen. How would you feel if you dragged your 500K Super Vee to Point Pleasant N.J. kicked everybodies ASS honestly andwhen it was time to collect a trophy and check there wasn't any? Sorry we combined classes at the last minute BULL****!
SBI at it's finest
Last edited by Goodfella; 05-05-2002 at 06:56 PM.
05-05-2002, 07:06 PM
#152
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Boat Girl,
You are correct about the new canopy Cigarette; It is one very nice piece of machinery, and yes, Fountains are very nice boats, one of the top in my list.
Please don't mix mix up with stating that someone is specifically cheating however. Racing is characteristic of knowing the rules, how to get around them and determining the probability of getting caught by pushing them combined with the risk and returns. This is racing.
Like I said before, SBI and APBA both have great attributes. If I was either, (or both) I would put my efforts on my best points and not try to canabalize the other group. I think there is a good market for each if they both concentrate on their core strengths.
You are correct about the new canopy Cigarette; It is one very nice piece of machinery, and yes, Fountains are very nice boats, one of the top in my list.
Please don't mix mix up with stating that someone is specifically cheating however. Racing is characteristic of knowing the rules, how to get around them and determining the probability of getting caught by pushing them combined with the risk and returns. This is racing.
Like I said before, SBI and APBA both have great attributes. If I was either, (or both) I would put my efforts on my best points and not try to canabalize the other group. I think there is a good market for each if they both concentrate on their core strengths.
05-05-2002, 09:38 PM
#153
Allergic to Nonsense
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I'm back....spent the weekend trying to do something positive for Skaterfest....... and had some good chats out on Long Island..... There are some guys in Joey's shop who have their stuff together and hope to see most of them at the 'fest...... Joey, of course, is racing...and good luck to him as well... an old and good friend.
Back to the debate....... This post is much shorter than the actual discussion, which has raged for 15 years and counting..... APBA is better, no OPT is better, no USO is better, no APBA is better, no APBA"S president was hired by USO and NOW it's better, no wait OPT is bankrupt and is now SBR and it's better, no wait...... APBA is better, no SBR is now SBI and it's REALLY better, no wait USO was sold to somebody...and then somebody else...and then it went out of business so obviously it's not better...but its spirit lives on in OPA and now that's better, but SBI is still aligned so that's better, and APBA is an LLC so it's REALLY REALLY better...... ad infinitum...and nauseum. Listen to yourselves..and read your own words...... "I like this group because they throw out cheaters... Then allow shareholders to race....and it's better.... take that!"........ " No, I like that group because you can bend the rules in a "racer friendly" atmosphere...and it's better.... so there!" What we have amid all of this sticking out of tongues at each other...is a complete missing of the point.
Racers' have rights too!
1. The right to a level playing field with equal thorough enforcement, unadulterated by , Financial considerations,Sponsors, Manufacturers, Media types, Show biz types or whatever.
2. The right to clear and open information not only detailing the rules, but explaining why the rules are mandated.... (Start with , for instance, why Super Cats have no midrange torque)
3. The right to site selection that is convenient to launching, hot pits, dry pits, wet pits, and accomodations.
4. The right to Safety mandates that have teeth in them and are constantly updated.... (What changes took place after last year's fatal accident...for instance?)
5. The right to up to date technical information, explaining specific issues in specific classes...and what the options are before a "decision" is reached....and the right to participate in that decision.
6. The right to call a spade a spade...... the simple fundamentals of the "good ol' U.S. of A.".... remember them.... free speech, etc... Jerry Gilbreath spoke out...Jerry Gilbreath is gone...... Ben Robertson spoke out..... Ben Robertson is gone... Ben's biggest detractor was a "dot com. cazillionaire"... and LLC investor.......touted as the "greatest financial saviour..and boat company owner.......who subsequently caught a case of recessionitis.... and dissolved...like Benny in rough water.
Funny thing is.....those controversies would have made far better TV than 10 minutes of video tours of the St. Petersburg beaches or 10 minutes of the 17 class "action clips", for that matter.
7.The right to the truth...without the hyperbole... It's okay to admit that attendance is down, because of the economy, and that sites are backing out because of financial issues.... or mistakes for that matter. If the racing community senses honesty, it's amazing how people will rush forward to help...... B.S. yields a whole 'nother result. They also have the right to know the hard facts like television does not find every class to be something worth watching....especially when there's only one boat in it.
8. The right to a Single Organizing body.......for a real championship competing against the best of both worlds.
9. The right to a strong regional race schedule and developmental classes.
10. The right to an organization they can be proud of..........
T2x
P.S....Who the heck is this Tx2 guy?
Back to the debate....... This post is much shorter than the actual discussion, which has raged for 15 years and counting..... APBA is better, no OPT is better, no USO is better, no APBA is better, no APBA"S president was hired by USO and NOW it's better, no wait OPT is bankrupt and is now SBR and it's better, no wait...... APBA is better, no SBR is now SBI and it's REALLY better, no wait USO was sold to somebody...and then somebody else...and then it went out of business so obviously it's not better...but its spirit lives on in OPA and now that's better, but SBI is still aligned so that's better, and APBA is an LLC so it's REALLY REALLY better...... ad infinitum...and nauseum. Listen to yourselves..and read your own words...... "I like this group because they throw out cheaters... Then allow shareholders to race....and it's better.... take that!"........ " No, I like that group because you can bend the rules in a "racer friendly" atmosphere...and it's better.... so there!" What we have amid all of this sticking out of tongues at each other...is a complete missing of the point.
Racers' have rights too!
1. The right to a level playing field with equal thorough enforcement, unadulterated by , Financial considerations,Sponsors, Manufacturers, Media types, Show biz types or whatever.
2. The right to clear and open information not only detailing the rules, but explaining why the rules are mandated.... (Start with , for instance, why Super Cats have no midrange torque)
3. The right to site selection that is convenient to launching, hot pits, dry pits, wet pits, and accomodations.
4. The right to Safety mandates that have teeth in them and are constantly updated.... (What changes took place after last year's fatal accident...for instance?)
5. The right to up to date technical information, explaining specific issues in specific classes...and what the options are before a "decision" is reached....and the right to participate in that decision.
6. The right to call a spade a spade...... the simple fundamentals of the "good ol' U.S. of A.".... remember them.... free speech, etc... Jerry Gilbreath spoke out...Jerry Gilbreath is gone...... Ben Robertson spoke out..... Ben Robertson is gone... Ben's biggest detractor was a "dot com. cazillionaire"... and LLC investor.......touted as the "greatest financial saviour..and boat company owner.......who subsequently caught a case of recessionitis.... and dissolved...like Benny in rough water.
Funny thing is.....those controversies would have made far better TV than 10 minutes of video tours of the St. Petersburg beaches or 10 minutes of the 17 class "action clips", for that matter.
7.The right to the truth...without the hyperbole... It's okay to admit that attendance is down, because of the economy, and that sites are backing out because of financial issues.... or mistakes for that matter. If the racing community senses honesty, it's amazing how people will rush forward to help...... B.S. yields a whole 'nother result. They also have the right to know the hard facts like television does not find every class to be something worth watching....especially when there's only one boat in it.
8. The right to a Single Organizing body.......for a real championship competing against the best of both worlds.
9. The right to a strong regional race schedule and developmental classes.
10. The right to an organization they can be proud of..........
T2x
P.S....Who the heck is this Tx2 guy?
Last edited by T2x; 05-05-2002 at 09:46 PM.
05-05-2002, 10:13 PM
#154
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Apples/Oranges...
Hey folks....if you've been involved with the racing the last few years...as I have..as racer and volunteer...I think you would understand that comparing the current APBA Offshore and the SBI circuit is not really the same animal..
It is offshore racing, without a doubt, but beyond that, they really aren't the same product.....
APBA, in my limited experience, is very serious and "by-the-book" and the SBI folks (racers&volunteers) have been much more fun to deal-with...and there is nothing wrong with either method...if it is understood than..that it is, what it is....
Mr. Carbonell has a different vision of what he wants for his organization than Mr. Allweiss has for his....
It is up to the individual, person/team, to decide which way they would like to pursue......THERE IS NOT A WRONG ANSWER!!!
And as a "fan" as long as it's good racing..and I can participate or watch, It's All Good....
BODYSHOT1's....02
ok...who's up???
It is offshore racing, without a doubt, but beyond that, they really aren't the same product.....
APBA, in my limited experience, is very serious and "by-the-book" and the SBI folks (racers&volunteers) have been much more fun to deal-with...and there is nothing wrong with either method...if it is understood than..that it is, what it is....
Mr. Carbonell has a different vision of what he wants for his organization than Mr. Allweiss has for his....
It is up to the individual, person/team, to decide which way they would like to pursue......THERE IS NOT A WRONG ANSWER!!!
And as a "fan" as long as it's good racing..and I can participate or watch, It's All Good....
BODYSHOT1's....02
ok...who's up???
05-05-2002, 10:24 PM
#155
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NASCAR...
Goodfella-
Check the NASCAR archives
for the name of the guy that won the first Talladega race.
Only race he ever won.
See, all the drivers got together and...
Besides, Bodyshot just hit the jackpot.
There are no wrong answers.
And KP summed up
the metaphysics of motorsports wrenching with-
"Racing is characteristic of knowing the rules, how to get around them and determining the probability of getting caught by pushing them combined with the risk and returns. This is racing."
Check the NASCAR archives
for the name of the guy that won the first Talladega race.
Only race he ever won.
See, all the drivers got together and...
Besides, Bodyshot just hit the jackpot.
There are no wrong answers.
And KP summed up
the metaphysics of motorsports wrenching with-
"Racing is characteristic of knowing the rules, how to get around them and determining the probability of getting caught by pushing them combined with the risk and returns. This is racing."
05-05-2002, 10:37 PM
#156
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Hey Bodyshot, dos'nt this argument remind you of last Wed nite! 
This argument will go on forever and ever !! Everybody has thier own opinion of who and what is the best, and nobody will change thier mind. That includes myself! Why cant we just respect each others opinions and leave it at that. Our sport needs all the help it can get, last thing we need is people trying to drive a wedge between both sanctioning bodys.
Just to back up Bodyshot 1 , I've dealt with both oganizations, and I also feel that SBI is a little more laid back and have had a more fun time with that group. APBA events seem to be a little too " regimented" for lack of a better term to use . and the racers are not as outgoing and approachable as ive seen in SBI.
Not saying that one orgaization is better than the other , just my opinion.
This argument will go on forever and ever !! Everybody has thier own opinion of who and what is the best, and nobody will change thier mind. That includes myself! Why cant we just respect each others opinions and leave it at that. Our sport needs all the help it can get, last thing we need is people trying to drive a wedge between both sanctioning bodys.
Just to back up Bodyshot 1 , I've dealt with both oganizations, and I also feel that SBI is a little more laid back and have had a more fun time with that group. APBA events seem to be a little too " regimented" for lack of a better term to use . and the racers are not as outgoing and approachable as ive seen in SBI.
Not saying that one orgaization is better than the other , just my opinion.
05-05-2002, 10:47 PM
#157
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KP Very well said, I agree with that philosophy...and its true...
Goodfella...if you really think that the NASCAR boys dont share information, then you havent been around NASCAR...they do amongst team members and similar manufacturers...yes they are out there to win, but they are also out there to put on a great show for the fans...just like the racers of both SBI and APBA, they just do it differently...
Bodyshot, I am with you it is all good...if the racing is good I'll watch it...I dont just watch NASCAR, I watch USAC, Modifieds, Sprints, Silver Crown, NHRA, Indy, Cart, Formula 1, 24 hours of Daytona, Hydros, Motorcycles, Tour de France, air races, horses, anything that goes fast, just keep it real and put on a good show...
T2X, You are right, racers do have the right to a level playing field...I think that both groups provide that...APBA has more say in the playing field...and SBI allows the racers to have a say in the playing field...but it doesnt mean the racers have free reign, they too have inspectors...either way its good competition...
Times, lap sheets, speeds, and the clock dont lie, and the score sheets are posted after every race...If it was that obvious that one boat is dominating the class or overall I think something would be said and done about it...
Goodfella...if you really think that the NASCAR boys dont share information, then you havent been around NASCAR...they do amongst team members and similar manufacturers...yes they are out there to win, but they are also out there to put on a great show for the fans...just like the racers of both SBI and APBA, they just do it differently...
Bodyshot, I am with you it is all good...if the racing is good I'll watch it...I dont just watch NASCAR, I watch USAC, Modifieds, Sprints, Silver Crown, NHRA, Indy, Cart, Formula 1, 24 hours of Daytona, Hydros, Motorcycles, Tour de France, air races, horses, anything that goes fast, just keep it real and put on a good show...
T2X, You are right, racers do have the right to a level playing field...I think that both groups provide that...APBA has more say in the playing field...and SBI allows the racers to have a say in the playing field...but it doesnt mean the racers have free reign, they too have inspectors...either way its good competition...
Times, lap sheets, speeds, and the clock dont lie, and the score sheets are posted after every race...If it was that obvious that one boat is dominating the class or overall I think something would be said and done about it...
Last edited by Boat Girl; 05-05-2002 at 10:50 PM.
05-05-2002, 11:02 PM
#159
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..Fred..I've always wanted to bring that up...but for regular "joes"..like us...???
..gotta have the $$$$..to make any waves in this sport...otherwise..pay your fees...or volunteer for hours..and hours...rain/shine....and be quiet!!
..hope to see you at the 'Fest!
..gotta have the $$$$..to make any waves in this sport...otherwise..pay your fees...or volunteer for hours..and hours...rain/shine....and be quiet!!
..hope to see you at the 'Fest!
