Shogren on Used Boats: "Be prepared for reality."
03-25-2011, 12:07 PM
#91
Registered
Maybe I am missing something here (I do that a lot) but I have always known if I trade a boat, car, motorcycle in to a dealer that I will get less then I would selling on my own.
That's because the dealer has to RESELL it, they are not buying it for themselves or the good of their heart.
The plus is not having to hassle with people telling everything they don't like etc. But it is your choice, convenience and a bit less or sell it on your own.
Why would I be mad at the dealer for this? it is a business,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
That's because the dealer has to RESELL it, they are not buying it for themselves or the good of their heart.
The plus is not having to hassle with people telling everything they don't like etc. But it is your choice, convenience and a bit less or sell it on your own.
Why would I be mad at the dealer for this? it is a business,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Commercial Member
03-25-2011, 12:40 PM
#93
Gold Member
You're obviously not the average dealer Scott. Providing an indoor facility that size, where one can list their boat for sale, as well as the prep, is extraordinary indeed. It also entails an enormous investment. I had a bird inside my shrink wrap last April, because the dealer was "unaware" of screens for the vents. Most everyone has had, at one time or another, a bad experience of some type with a boat dealer. Part of the problem is the seasonal nature of the business in many climates. It's good to see a dealer or two that really is in it for the long term.
Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.
Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.
Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.
Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.
03-25-2011, 12:51 PM
#94
Registered
Very good analogy
Very educated response.
I believe the future is Center Consoles, Trailer Boats (meaning up to 30'), pontoons, deck boats, Outboard boats & ski boats along with bigger boats of value.
Why? If you go back to 2005 for example. A buyer may have had a 2002 28' brand X boat with a single brand X motor. He traded it in on a 42 brand X boat with brand X motors and got a bank to do a no doc loan. Shame on the bank number one and shame on the consumer that lied about income. Now this 300K boat is worth 185K and he has a 285K note. He is saying darn, if I just kept that boat I traded I would have it paid for now and would not be in this situation. Instead I am upside down 100K which is more than the boat I traded in.
Face it, there are people that have what I call the "water gene" and will be on the water and boating in some capacity no matter what. This is where the mfg that adjust will have a future. This is just my opinion, not fact but certainly the way things are trending right now.
The bigger the boat the better the value right now. Smaller single engine boats are actually pretty strong right now and the outboard market is growing.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
I believe the future is Center Consoles, Trailer Boats (meaning up to 30'), pontoons, deck boats, Outboard boats & ski boats along with bigger boats of value.
Why? If you go back to 2005 for example. A buyer may have had a 2002 28' brand X boat with a single brand X motor. He traded it in on a 42 brand X boat with brand X motors and got a bank to do a no doc loan. Shame on the bank number one and shame on the consumer that lied about income. Now this 300K boat is worth 185K and he has a 285K note. He is saying darn, if I just kept that boat I traded I would have it paid for now and would not be in this situation. Instead I am upside down 100K which is more than the boat I traded in.
Face it, there are people that have what I call the "water gene" and will be on the water and boating in some capacity no matter what. This is where the mfg that adjust will have a future. This is just my opinion, not fact but certainly the way things are trending right now.
The bigger the boat the better the value right now. Smaller single engine boats are actually pretty strong right now and the outboard market is growing.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
You're obviously not the average dealer Scott. Providing an indoor facility that size, where one can list their boat for sale, as well as the prep, is extraordinary indeed. It also entails an enormous investment. I had a bird inside my shrink wrap last April, because the dealer was "unaware" of screens for the vents. Most everyone has had, at one time or another, a bad experience of some type with a boat dealer. Part of the problem is the seasonal nature of the business in many climates. It's good to see a dealer or two that really is in it for the long term.
Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.
Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.
Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.
Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.
03-25-2011, 01:42 PM
#96
I've given up on CC;s, deck boats and the like for these cold areas. Although my Sea Ray dealer just took on Proline. One thing that was very enlightening this year, was seeing Cobalt's brand new cuddy. The one with a separate, enclosed head 
Nice to see their return to closed bow, plus an obvious enclosed head in a cuddy.
Pontoons have their role, and they can be as cheap or expensive as you want them to be. Three boats this year gave me hope for something new in boating.
There are tons of fairly decent boats in the price ranges from under $15 k to $30 k. They have to start somewhere.
The new Chap bowrider/cuddy, that has a cabin that is full-beam width and performance
The Cobalt I mentioned above.
The new Four Winns Cruiser. Only 30', but will sleep six comfortably.
Somebody's been thinking the past two years.
Nice to see their return to closed bow, plus an obvious enclosed head in a cuddy. Pontoons have their role, and they can be as cheap or expensive as you want them to be. Three boats this year gave me hope for something new in boating.
There are tons of fairly decent boats in the price ranges from under $15 k to $30 k. They have to start somewhere.
The new Chap bowrider/cuddy, that has a cabin that is full-beam width and performance
The Cobalt I mentioned above.
The new Four Winns Cruiser. Only 30', but will sleep six comfortably.
Somebody's been thinking the past two years.
03-25-2011, 02:46 PM
#97
Very educated response.
I believe the future is Center Consoles, Trailer Boats (meaning up to 30'), pontoons, deck boats, Outboard boats & ski boats along with bigger boats of value.
Why? If you go back to 2005 for example. A buyer may have had a 2002 28' brand X boat with a single brand X motor. He traded it in on a 42 brand X boat with brand X motors and got a bank to do a no doc loan. Shame on the bank number one and shame on the consumer that lied about income. Now this 300K boat is worth 185K and he has a 285K note. He is saying darn, if I just kept that boat I traded I would have it paid for now and would not be in this situation. Instead I am upside down 100K which is more than the boat I traded in.
Face it, there are people that have what I call the "water gene" and will be on the water and boating in some capacity no matter what. This is where the mfg that adjust will have a future. This is just my opinion, not fact but certainly the way things are trending right now.
The bigger the boat the better the value right now. Smaller single engine boats are actually pretty strong right now and the outboard market is growing.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
I believe the future is Center Consoles, Trailer Boats (meaning up to 30'), pontoons, deck boats, Outboard boats & ski boats along with bigger boats of value.
Why? If you go back to 2005 for example. A buyer may have had a 2002 28' brand X boat with a single brand X motor. He traded it in on a 42 brand X boat with brand X motors and got a bank to do a no doc loan. Shame on the bank number one and shame on the consumer that lied about income. Now this 300K boat is worth 185K and he has a 285K note. He is saying darn, if I just kept that boat I traded I would have it paid for now and would not be in this situation. Instead I am upside down 100K which is more than the boat I traded in.
Face it, there are people that have what I call the "water gene" and will be on the water and boating in some capacity no matter what. This is where the mfg that adjust will have a future. This is just my opinion, not fact but certainly the way things are trending right now.
The bigger the boat the better the value right now. Smaller single engine boats are actually pretty strong right now and the outboard market is growing.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
Unfortunately the demographics of our nation are changing rapidly, right before our very eyes, with a shrinking and struggling middle class. Boating is also hugely cultural, being mostly associated with and marketed to the ever decreasing percentage of WASP/Js in our country. Many of the "new arrivals" even if they have the money and qualifications don't have a water gene. The "Yearning" phenomenon I introduced to this thread was a feeling most of us had since we were young and our Dad/uncle/etc. first took us out on a boat (or we saw the girls). Most of the new arrivals in the medical, IT and engineering professions I work with without being too specific haven't yearned for anything other than to come to Amerika. Most don't even like to go outdoors to exercise or do anything (it could darken their tan - this is a real concern to them not a joke). Many live in the Chicago, Detroit or Dearborn area and could afford a new boat every year if they want but it's not in their culture. So until this demograhic is convinced otherwise they are not doing anything that requires being outdoors for extended periods. And the traditional boating demographic just keeps getting smaller, and smaller...
03-25-2011, 03:08 PM
#98
You're obviously not the average dealer Scott. Providing an indoor facility that size, where one can list their boat for sale, as well as the prep, is extraordinary indeed. It also entails an enormous investment. I had a bird inside my shrink wrap last April, because the dealer was "unaware" of screens for the vents. Most everyone has had, at one time or another, a bad experience of some type with a boat dealer. Part of the problem is the seasonal nature of the business in many climates. It's good to see a dealer or two that really is in it for the long term.
Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.
Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.
Every dealer should also take into consideration that consumers have had major problems as well. Many became pretty angry when they realized their $200k new boat was not such a good move when they financed it with a home equity loan. Chances are, they got a double whammy with both assets dropping below financed amounts. The little guy gets kicked again when they realize that their dealer now only talks to the hi rollers, because the little guy's boat's is under water in the financing now. Hopefully a lesson learned, but the grudge will persist. People will eventually get over it.
Judging from most comments all over the country, it's mainly a realization amongst factions of the Middle Class that they got taken. Granted, they made their decisions and should take their medicine. But for a few years, many of them actually thought they were important and could live the good life. Now they find out that they not only can't participate, but their past participation will cost them dearly. I think it goes back to the concept mentioned of Yearning for something, then plotting a course to actually devising methods to obtain it. Too many got suckered into the easy money game with houses and boats and other toys. They naturally get a bit bent out of shape when the dealer tells them what they bought not long ago, ain't worth sheet now. They'll get over it eventually, and hopefully, be more cautious in the future.
You gotta do what you gotta do, and dealers can't afford the luxury of looking in the rear view mirror all day. Since I don;t expect too many new boaters to be jumping into the boating world anytime soon, (except for pontoons and lower ticket items), people need to either enjoy what they have now, or close your eyes and dump it.
03-25-2011, 03:41 PM
#99
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lake Michigan
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Team Shogren sells boats....Not just lists boats for sale.
You have a better idea of how much to list your boat for then you don't need a dealer. Look at what boats are listed for and watch what sells or sits...for years. These guys know what it takes to move a boat. They do this for a living day in and day out. I'm on this site everyday. I look at the classifieds and mentally tag a boat with how long it takes to sell. Sometimes im still amazed at how long a good buy sits before its gone.
BTW, This is the best time to move into that next boat you've been dreaming of.
This is all kind of funny since I'm right around the corner of selling mine with or without a dealer.
I know what number and my time it will take to sell it. And for 5-6K its not worth wasting alot of time showing it when they can do it for you six days a week rain, snow, or shine.
You have a better idea of how much to list your boat for then you don't need a dealer. Look at what boats are listed for and watch what sells or sits...for years. These guys know what it takes to move a boat. They do this for a living day in and day out. I'm on this site everyday. I look at the classifieds and mentally tag a boat with how long it takes to sell. Sometimes im still amazed at how long a good buy sits before its gone.
BTW, This is the best time to move into that next boat you've been dreaming of.
This is all kind of funny since I'm right around the corner of selling mine with or without a dealer.
I know what number and my time it will take to sell it. And for 5-6K its not worth wasting alot of time showing it when they can do it for you six days a week rain, snow, or shine.
Last edited by Back4More; 03-25-2011 at 04:47 PM.
03-25-2011, 04:10 PM
#100
Banned
Team Shogren sells boats....Not just lists boats for sale.
You have a better idea of how much to list your boat for then you don't need a dealer. Look at what boats are listed for and watch what sells or sits...for years. These guys know what it takes to move a boat. They do this for a living day in and day out. I'm on this site everyday. I look at the classifieds and mentally tag a boat with how long it takes to sell. Sometimes im still amazed at how long a good buy sits before its gone.
BTW, This is the best time to move into that next boat you've been dreaming of.
This is all kind of funny since I'm right around the corner of selling mine with or without a dealer.
I know what number and my time it will take to sell it. And for 5-6K its not worth wasting alot of time showing it when they can do it for you six days a week rain or shine.
You have a better idea of how much to list your boat for then you don't need a dealer. Look at what boats are listed for and watch what sells or sits...for years. These guys know what it takes to move a boat. They do this for a living day in and day out. I'm on this site everyday. I look at the classifieds and mentally tag a boat with how long it takes to sell. Sometimes im still amazed at how long a good buy sits before its gone.
BTW, This is the best time to move into that next boat you've been dreaming of.
This is all kind of funny since I'm right around the corner of selling mine with or without a dealer.
I know what number and my time it will take to sell it. And for 5-6K its not worth wasting alot of time showing it when they can do it for you six days a week rain or shine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuk...item1c1a58eafd
Last edited by RunninHotRacing163.1; 03-25-2011 at 04:15 PM. Reason: spelign
