Offshoreonly.com

Offshoreonly.com (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/)
-   General Boating Discussion (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion-51/)
-   -   When is fast too fast? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/250479-when-fast-too-fast.html)

Smarty 04-03-2011 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by Philm (Post 3366989)
I am not sure I am understanding what you are saying. From what I read, it appears that you would blame and sue the boat manufacturer for building a fast boat for an inexperienced customer and would not blame the customer for a crash? How does that make any sense?

And since when does a boat that can eject a passenger equal an unsafe boat? You can be ejected from any boat, be it a sailboat, pontoon boat, CC, sportfisherman, or high performance. Are all these boats built unsafe? Should every boat made have a full canopy and rescue air?

What ever happened to personal responsibility? The freedom to buy what you want knowing full well the risks involved and owning up to it when something happens is what used to make this country a great place. Now you can buy what you want and when you screw up you can blame it on someone else who wasnt involved at all.

Maybe I wasnt seeing the sarcasm in your post and you didnt mean what you wrote, if so, I apologize. :coolcowboy:

If a performance boat cannot make an emergency turn at 135 mph then maybe it just isn't the operator's fault. Face fact, it has a design defect, or maybe it just an unsafe boat in that application. Sure it goes 135 mph in a straightline, on smooth water, and it should it is 40'+ long; but sooner or later it will need to make a right or left trun. If you sell this boat to a consumer who runs his new $1,000,000 boat up to the top speed, and needs to make an emregency turn, or heaven forbid he has to cross a wake from another boat (I did not say Ocean Wakes), and the boat launches, and ejects its passengers, then it is not just the operators fault. It can be expected and designed for that both of the scenarios could play out in the above example. Boats must be able to turn at speed and cross wakes, design accordingly.

I do not handle lawsuits, I do not advocate suing for the sheer sake of suing when someone's own negligent operation is to blame, but I don't buy the bullsh*t it is the operator's fault, and neither would a jury. If a manufacturer is to charge in the area of $600,000+ for a boat that was being operated at the intended speed by which was a major component of sale and one of the chief reasons why the buyer bought the boat, an average jury would not buy the bullsh*t it was all the driver's fault he should not have turned the wheel he was going too fast. Guess what happens next?

The politician gets wind of this and drafts a bill to have a speed limit to save lives, because in the example above the lives would have saved if the operator was traveling at a maximum speed of 65 mph not 135 mph. My point, reduce accidents, reduce being front page news, and reduce the likelihood of governmental interference. If you sell a product that is the fastest make sure it is safe, and do everything you, the manufacturer, can to protect yourself (liability wise).

Hope this clears it up, boater's are considered the privileged class in the eyes of the public. And when a huge dollar boat injures or kills the passenger(s) who is an innocent victim due to driver error coupled with a design defect (boat could not turn at WOT), then the answer is simple for the jury, guilty as charged.

I am a perfomance boater who does not want speed limiits or my freedoms taken away due to the error of others. I think most boats are built safely, and accidents happen. My $.02 opinion.

hotjava66 04-03-2011 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by Smarty (Post 3367282)
If a performance boat cannot make an emergency turn at 135 mph then maybe it just isn't the operator's fault. Face fact, it has a design defect, or maybe it just an unsafe boat in that application. Sure it goes 135 mph in a straightline, on smooth water, and it should it is 40'+ long; but sooner or later it will need to make a right or left trun. If you sell this boat to a consumer who runs his new $1,000,000 boat up to the top speed, and needs to make an emregency turn, or heaven forbid he has to cross a wake from another boat (I did not say Ocean Wakes), and the boat launches, and ejects its passengers, then it is not just the operators fault. It can be expected and designed for that both of the scenarios could play out in the above example. Boats must be able to turn at speed and cross wakes, design accordingly.

I do not handle lawsuits, I do not advocate suing for the sheer sake of suing when someone's own negligent operation is to blame, but I don't buy the bullsh*t it is the operator's fault, and neither would a jury. If a manufacturer is to charge in the area of $600,000+ for a boat that was being operated at the intended speed by which was a major component of sale and one of the chief reasons why the buyer bought the boat, an average jury would not buy the bullsh*t it was all the driver's fault he should not have turned the wheel he was going too fast. Guess what happens next?

The politician gets wind of this and drafts a bill to have a speed limit to save lives, because in the example above the lives would have saved if the operator was traveling at a maximum speed of 65 mph not 135 mph. My point, reduce accidents, reduce being front page news, and reduce the likelihood of governmental interference. If you sell a product that is the fastest make sure it is safe, and do everything you can to protect yourself (liability wise).

Hope this clears it up, boater's are considered the privileged class in the eyes of the public. And when a huge dollar boat injures or kills the passgenger who is an innocent victim due to driver error coupled with a design defect (boat could not turn at WOT), then the answer is simple for the jury, guilty as charged.

I have to disagree, for this reason. I have operated and driven everything from cars, boats, airplanes, heavy machinery, and big trucks. Not one of them is safe to turn hard at speed, especially WOT. It is all related to situational awareness and knowing the limits and capabilities of your equipment. If the operator of a boat isnt aware of his surroundings and the capabilities of his boat, he shouldnt be driving it and HE is liable for his boat and passengers. Now if the boat manufacturer doesnt give new owners information about its cababilities, and info needed to operate it safely then maybe there might be some liability there. Another point is that every time you get in a car, plane or boat, there is risk involved. Accidents can and will happen and everyone should be aware of that and acknowledge the risks before doing it.

Smarty 04-03-2011 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by hotjava66 (Post 3367290)
I have to disagree, for this reason. I have operated and driven everything from cars, boats, airplanes, heavy machinery, and big trucks. Not one of them is safe to turn hard at speed, especially WOT. It is all related to situational awareness and knowing the limits and capabilities of your equipment. If the operator of a boat isnt aware of his surroundings and the capabilities of his boat, he shouldnt be driving it and HE is liable for his boat and passengers. Now if the boat manufacturer doesnt give new owners information about its cababilities, and info needed to operate it safely then maybe there might be some liability there. Another point is that every time you get in a car, plane or boat, there is risk involved. Accidents can and will happen and everyone should be aware of that and acknowledge the risks before doing it.

I understand you point of of view, but a Judge or Jury will rule for the plaintiff's (injured party that is suing) in the above example, like or it not, that is the outcome.

phragle 04-03-2011 10:07 PM

I have a ford explorer...I cant crank the wheel at 60 without putting it on its roof....

Yet I have had it for 10 years and have not flipped it once. Every boat, plane and car has a speed governer, and it usually works really well.

However if there is a direct short between speed governer's brain and throttle hand there will be problems. It doesnt matter if its a 1974 ford station wagon or a mystic with turbines, there will be problems,

If your afraid...dont get in the boat. if you dont trust or know the operator, dont get in the boat.

If your climbing into a 150 mph boat being operated by someone you dont know, dont trust or have any reservations about, Mister Darwin would like to speak to you.

If you are running a 150 mph boat and lack the skills to safely operate a 19' bayliner, Mr. Darwin would like to talk to you....

The bottom line is that a 46' boat with triple 1300's is no more dangerous than a geo metro....both are safe when operated prudently, both are deadly if there is a loose nut behind the wheel.

Whether your an operator or a passanger it is your responsibility to check the nut behind the wheel.

Just because you dont want to accept responsibility for your actions does not make a vehicle dangerous.

On Time 04-04-2011 07:10 AM


Originally Posted by phragle (Post 3367703)
I have a ford explorer...I cant crank the wheel at 60 without putting it on its roof....

Yet I have had it for 10 years and have not flipped it once. Every boat, plane and car has a speed governer, and it usually works really well.

However if there is a direct short between speed governer's brain and throttle hand there will be problems. It doesnt matter if its a 1974 ford station wagon or a mystic with turbines, there will be problems,

If your afraid...dont get in the boat. if you dont trust or know the operator, dont get in the boat.

If your climbing into a 150 mph boat being operated by someone you dont know, dont trust or have any reservations about, Mister Darwin would like to speak to you.

If you are running a 150 mph boat and lack the skills to safely operate a 19' bayliner, Mr. Darwin would like to talk to you....

The bottom line is that a 46' boat with triple 1300's is no more dangerous than a geo metro....both are safe when operated prudently, both are deadly if there is a loose nut behind the wheel.

Whether your an operator or a passanger it is your responsibility to check the nut behind the wheel.

Just because you dont want to accept responsibility for your actions does not make a vehicle dangerous.

I agree. We have an Explorer also, among other cars, a 2001 with no accident history.

The San Jacinto River in industrial East Houston is a slow moving 75-150 yard wide river that was ideal for water skiing, tubing, wakeboarding, and had lots of nice houses to look at when I was young. Now you'd better not go there in less than a Klingon battle cruiser if you hope to survive. It's full of redneck idiots running these flatbottom and tunnel hull outboards and jet boats with only 2 speeds - 0 or 90. I met a girl once whose boyfriend lost a leg after being run over and prop mangled by one of these drunk and insane idiots after he fell waterskiing. She said it looked like he had been attacked by sharks and he barely survived. I can here it now, "Well don't water ski where those guys are". Hey, the water sports people were there FIRST, for many years, until these idiots from hell showed up and started maiming and killing people while they improved on their beer buzz. It's difficult to find words that describe these People of Walmart morons that get sht faced and go out and drive 100 mph. :angry-smiley-055:

phragle 04-04-2011 07:46 AM

Im just tired of people that no longer want to take responsibility for their own actions. No matter what happens, they have somebody or something to blame but themselves. At the rate its going, the OB/GYN is going to have a waiver for you to sign before he lets you out of the womb.

**WARNING**
Being alive has been known to cause death. The environment outside the womb contains substances known to cause cancer, alcoholism, and other unknown ailments.


DO NOT ENTER LIFE
If you may be pregnant, have back or neck conditions, heart problems, respiratory issues or any other medical condition that may put you at risk for injury, illness or death from experiencing life, being born increases these risks

Catastrophe 04-04-2011 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by phragle (Post 3367703)
I have a ford explorer...I cant crank the wheel at 60 without putting it on its roof....

Yet I have had it for 10 years and have not flipped it once. Every boat, plane and car has a speed governer, and it usually works really well.

However if there is a direct short between speed governer's brain and throttle hand there will be problems. It doesnt matter if its a 1974 ford station wagon or a mystic with turbines, there will be problems,

If your afraid...dont get in the boat. if you dont trust or know the operator, dont get in the boat.

If your climbing into a 150 mph boat being operated by someone you dont know, dont trust or have any reservations about, Mister Darwin would like to speak to you.

If you are running a 150 mph boat and lack the skills to safely operate a 19' bayliner, Mr. Darwin would like to talk to you....

The bottom line is that a 46' boat with triple 1300's is no more dangerous than a geo metro....both are safe when operated prudently, both are deadly if there is a loose nut behind the wheel.

Whether your an operator or a passanger it is your responsibility to check the nut behind the wheel.

Just because you dont want to accept responsibility for your actions does not make a vehicle dangerous.

PERFECT !!!

Smarty 04-04-2011 08:23 AM

I do not necesarily disagree with the view point of taking ownership of your actions, and suffering the consequesnces of bad decision making, but I do not like it when other boater's bad decision making affects me and the recreational sport of powerboating. That I am adamant about, and think it is bullsh*t that due to few careless/reckless individuals that governmental interference should be implemented in order to save lives.

And yes the Geo can flip over, and so can the Ford Explorer, and both Ford and GMC get sued and lose.

Off to defend the criminals, have an enjoyable day, and I wish it were that simple of answer for us all.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 AM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.