Too Fast ?????
05-30-2002, 02:43 PM
#31
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Seat belts would save lifes in some circumstances.
A canopy, 5 point harness, HANS device, helmet, and oxygen would reduce even more deaths.
No I don't have any statistics. No reasonable person could argue that if F1, NASCAR, INDY, USAF and APBA were to rid themself of harnesses and helmets they would be as safe or safer.
A canopy, 5 point harness, HANS device, helmet, and oxygen would reduce even more deaths.
No I don't have any statistics. No reasonable person could argue that if F1, NASCAR, INDY, USAF and APBA were to rid themself of harnesses and helmets they would be as safe or safer.
05-30-2002, 03:06 PM
#32
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No reasonable person could argue that if F1, NASCAR, INDY, USAF and APBA were to rid themself of harnesses and helmets they would be as safe or safer.
But F1, NASCAR, INDY, USAF and APBA will not allow you to race with a seat belt UNLESS you also have supporting protection from the subsequent impact: ie: roll cage, capsule, canopy etc.
In car racing, you don't have cockpit intrusive water forces to deal with either, so roll cages do the job just fine.
But, if you are seat-belted in a boat capable of capsizing, then, IMO, water deflecting enclosed canopies/capsules *should* certainly be used.
I've been involved in many crashes where I was thrown from my cartwheeling craft -- had I been wearing a seat-belt ONLY and stayed with the boat (with no capsule or canopy for protection from the impact), I'm pretty certain I would have suffered more severe injuries than I did.
05-30-2002, 03:17 PM
#33
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Gentlemen,
Let me join in here if I may.
1. First off, I agree with everything Fred has said. We have ENOUGH laws already and we do not need any more!
2. One issue I have is that each and everytime to you get in a boat and go fast, you have made a conscious decision knowing the risks. If you are not willing to assume the risks associated with such an activity, DO NOT PARTICIPATE!
3. IF you choose to go fast, YOU decide what safety equipment you want to wear. Personally, at all speed events I wear, and require others to wear LifeLine Jackets and Helmets. If you choose to not wear such items, you have no righ to complain if something happens and you get hurt. Why? Because you knew the risks and did not take the necessary precautions to prevent such injuries.
4. I ONLY run my boat fast when I am not around others and do not run it hard close to other boats. It is to dangerous. I have a Skater AND I have ALOT of EXPERIENCE! More than most I would bargain. I have extensive racing experience as well. Does that mean I think I ma infallable? NO WAY! In fact, often times when I am running in fun runs etc. I am made fun of for wearing safety gear. Oh well! It doesn't bother me a bit.
5. My Skater is not new but my Formula is. Are all people that buy new expensive boats inexperienced? No. Are many? Sure. If you look at my experience you will see I buy both new and used boats and respect each for what it is. Both can be dangerous if operated improperly. If you think extensive MANDATORY training helps, just look at drivers ed and all the accidents kids have. Why? Because, if you are REQUIRED to do it, many will just show up and not gain anything from the experience. Those who attend on their own free will, will certainly take much more away from the experience.
6. You CANNOT regulate, mandate, or legislate common sense.
7. ALCOHOL should be BANNED from boating just like driving autos! I know I will catch heat for this but I feel very strongly about it! Even after ONE drink your abilities are impeded. You may not think so but it is FACT! When you assume control of a boat, and in the performance world a guided missle, you as teh owner/operator have a HUGE responsibility to yourself, other boaters and your passengers to be able to operate the vessel at 100% capability at all times. You also have the responsibility to ensure everyone on boards safety in the event of an emergency.
Sorry, I will come down off my soap box now!
Let me join in here if I may.
1. First off, I agree with everything Fred has said. We have ENOUGH laws already and we do not need any more!
2. One issue I have is that each and everytime to you get in a boat and go fast, you have made a conscious decision knowing the risks. If you are not willing to assume the risks associated with such an activity, DO NOT PARTICIPATE!
3. IF you choose to go fast, YOU decide what safety equipment you want to wear. Personally, at all speed events I wear, and require others to wear LifeLine Jackets and Helmets. If you choose to not wear such items, you have no righ to complain if something happens and you get hurt. Why? Because you knew the risks and did not take the necessary precautions to prevent such injuries.
4. I ONLY run my boat fast when I am not around others and do not run it hard close to other boats. It is to dangerous. I have a Skater AND I have ALOT of EXPERIENCE! More than most I would bargain. I have extensive racing experience as well. Does that mean I think I ma infallable? NO WAY! In fact, often times when I am running in fun runs etc. I am made fun of for wearing safety gear. Oh well! It doesn't bother me a bit.
5. My Skater is not new but my Formula is. Are all people that buy new expensive boats inexperienced? No. Are many? Sure. If you look at my experience you will see I buy both new and used boats and respect each for what it is. Both can be dangerous if operated improperly. If you think extensive MANDATORY training helps, just look at drivers ed and all the accidents kids have. Why? Because, if you are REQUIRED to do it, many will just show up and not gain anything from the experience. Those who attend on their own free will, will certainly take much more away from the experience.
6. You CANNOT regulate, mandate, or legislate common sense.
7. ALCOHOL should be BANNED from boating just like driving autos! I know I will catch heat for this but I feel very strongly about it! Even after ONE drink your abilities are impeded. You may not think so but it is FACT! When you assume control of a boat, and in the performance world a guided missle, you as teh owner/operator have a HUGE responsibility to yourself, other boaters and your passengers to be able to operate the vessel at 100% capability at all times. You also have the responsibility to ensure everyone on boards safety in the event of an emergency.
Sorry, I will come down off my soap box now!
05-30-2002, 06:49 PM
#34
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1. First off, I agree with everything Fred has said. We have ENOUGH laws already and we do not need any more!
7. ALCOHOL should be BANNED from boating just like driving autos!
Make up your mind
7. ALCOHOL should be BANNED from boating just like driving autos!
Make up your mind
05-30-2002, 06:55 PM
#35
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Alchohol
Sorry I cant agree with alcohol being banned from boating ..Your telling me when im sitting at anchor all day in 90 degree weather I cant crack a brewski ?? NEVER....
05-30-2002, 08:07 PM
#36
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I am an experienced boater that would be willing to take a VOLUNTARY substainative driving course, like Skip Barber for boats, but have not found any. I understand the Scarab school is for buyers of Scarabs, which I don't own. Most good judgement is based on experience, which is based on bad judgement. Any way we get experience without bad judgement is a good thing.
If anyone reading this thread is truely qualified to teach performance boat driving, there may be a business opportunity here. It's not that I'm a bad boat driver (I hope!!), but I'm a boater. And part of that is the desire to perfect our skills. There is a lot I can still learn. Can anyone reading this say that doesn't apply to them also? Therefore, Dockrocker: Good Post.
Cobra: I've also heard the open fly statistic, but heard that was for man-overboards who got up in the middle of the night to answer nature on the swim platform....
Whoever talked about alcohol and Memorial Day Weekend at LOTO: On my boat we had a DD and a DP (Dedicated Passanger) who both enjoy drinking in other conditions. Troutly does not drink and boat, and MnFastBoater (if he had made it) does not either. (Mr. Trout: thanks for the diet coke. I'll buy the next one) I'm starting to hear of more boaters who choose to not drink and boat.
This could have become a heated thread with personal insults, but for the most part has not. The calm discussion of conflicting viewpoints from experienced boaters is what makes OSO the best boating site.
If anyone reading this thread is truely qualified to teach performance boat driving, there may be a business opportunity here. It's not that I'm a bad boat driver (I hope!!), but I'm a boater. And part of that is the desire to perfect our skills. There is a lot I can still learn. Can anyone reading this say that doesn't apply to them also? Therefore, Dockrocker: Good Post.
Cobra: I've also heard the open fly statistic, but heard that was for man-overboards who got up in the middle of the night to answer nature on the swim platform....
Whoever talked about alcohol and Memorial Day Weekend at LOTO: On my boat we had a DD and a DP (Dedicated Passanger) who both enjoy drinking in other conditions. Troutly does not drink and boat, and MnFastBoater (if he had made it) does not either. (Mr. Trout: thanks for the diet coke. I'll buy the next one) I'm starting to hear of more boaters who choose to not drink and boat.
This could have become a heated thread with personal insults, but for the most part has not. The calm discussion of conflicting viewpoints from experienced boaters is what makes OSO the best boating site.
05-31-2002, 09:54 AM
#37
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Chart,
Shane and I brought up the drinking and driving issue. I have no problem with drinking. I have no problem with driving. I DO have a problem when these are done at the "same time".
Being boating enthusiasts, I would love to see us become more responsible in this area. If someone wants to drink and drive and roll their boat over or do whatever and kills themselves, that is their decision. However, it seems inevitable that the above person will end up hurting someone else and that is not good.
My family and I do alot of boating and the fun watersports. Because of Lake Lanier in GA being so crowded on weekends, we DO NOT ski on weekends and very rarely boat. Drunk boaters scare me a little.
I bring this up b/c when an individual drinks their reaction time is delayed. Combine this with very fast speeds and a terrible situation is created. The drunk driving a pontoon boat doesn't scare me AS MUCH as the drunk going 70+.
Shane and I brought up the drinking and driving issue. I have no problem with drinking. I have no problem with driving. I DO have a problem when these are done at the "same time".
Being boating enthusiasts, I would love to see us become more responsible in this area. If someone wants to drink and drive and roll their boat over or do whatever and kills themselves, that is their decision. However, it seems inevitable that the above person will end up hurting someone else and that is not good.
My family and I do alot of boating and the fun watersports. Because of Lake Lanier in GA being so crowded on weekends, we DO NOT ski on weekends and very rarely boat. Drunk boaters scare me a little.
I bring this up b/c when an individual drinks their reaction time is delayed. Combine this with very fast speeds and a terrible situation is created. The drunk driving a pontoon boat doesn't scare me AS MUCH as the drunk going 70+.
05-31-2002, 10:49 AM
#38
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I'm seeing this post going all over the place, and I'll let you guys duke it out. One of the KEY reasons for this post is centering around the unfortunate skater accident over memorial day weekend, and the topic of experience is coming up quite a bit. Being a cat owner, and having a v-hull also, and alot of seat time and owning boats since I was 15 yrs old makes me agree with the experience issue. I know in a V-hull you can relax alot more than in a cat. In a cat, every ounce of concentration is on driving it, where as in a V you can "point and go" more or less in fair conditions. In a Cat, They ride better at speed, and go alot faster, and are totally day and night different as far as driver input goes. In my V-hull I cruise at 65ish, and do the occasional burst into the low 80's and really concentrate alot more during that short burst, and then go back to cruising along at 65 or so, relaxed. In the Cat, it's get on plane, get up to cruising speed, like 80, and I'm concentrating and driving it, not just relaxing, getting a feel for conditions, Now, throttle up into the big numbers, same concentration, but alot more mental input, things coming up fast, ect... Now Back down to 80, which is moving, you tend to relax, and not concentrate as much, only because you aren't going 100+, Not good, but probably very common in Cat's, it's just human nature. Now take a 36 skater, t/1000's, What's cruise speed, Pretty high I'll bet, and at what speed does the ride smooth out where it's packing air and riding good, the wave conditions will make this speed vary as well, but I dont know these numbers, or the top speed of this boat either, but the same a senario plays out, and depending on what high speed comfort zone in this big Cat is. Things happen real fast, and cant be corrected sometimes even with the best drivers in the world at the wheel and throttles. Bottom line is assumed risk is that of the driver and throttleman, the passengers may not be aware of all of this either, but any time I'm in a cat, I wear a lifejacket as do any passengers, I cant say I have the same rules in my V-hull, unless in a poker run. I think the bottom line is to do everything you can to protect yourself and your passengers when running fast. Do I feel that lifejackets should be mandatory, no, but if they were, alot of lives would be saved, but Then it would change everything about a nice cruise over to somewhere, Common sence cannot be regulated like we all agree. Shane, I know you have that same "Wow, are these two different worlds" feeling after spending alot of time in your V-hull, and then jumping in the Cat for a spin, it's like having to learn all over again. Alcohol, and driving a boat, I might have two beers purely out of thirst, on a hot summer day when I'm parked hanging out in a bay for 5-6 hours, but I generally stick to bottled water. Let the passengers drink, I go out on my friends boat when I want to tie one on...
Last edited by Advantage_Rob; 05-31-2002 at 12:51 PM.
