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Originally Posted by C_Spray
(Post 3410212)
It's my understanding the the 650/725 is an entirely new engine platform, designed by Chrysler.
I saw the component pictures you posted up and they were as sweet as anything Id ever seen. UD |
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave
(Post 3410157)
Im going to call BS on your comment because it isnt what "Im'" talking about its guys way smarter than me or you.
So lets see, Ilmor the highly vaunted engineering company capable of winning any race series with an engine design they can build from scratch says 700's the limit for continuous duty in marine apps in gen 3 form, and designed a new block from scratch to fix a problem you 2 guys say doesn't exist. Boostpower (Alexi has a masters degree in engineering) and countless engines of experience says the gen 3 block has a problem with oiling the number 5 rod under continuous load, and charges like 24K to rebuild a gen 3 Ilmor to make another 100 ponies and live does all that for no reason? Like I said I l know they can handle great HP for short amounts of time, but guys that know far better than anyone say no- who do you trust? No disrespect to Alexi or any of the other guys at Ilmor, but it's BS to say the stock block cant handle 700 hp or less under the stresses typically seen on the water or on the street. As mentioned, one of my Viper's is making twice this power and the other is a dedicated road racing car... and it does see PLENTY of stress every time it's used... no cruising at 3500 rpm or idling through no wake zones with that engine! Likewise, I know of countless track and race cars (including factory cars) using the stock block and I've never heard of a single BLOCK failure!!! Now I would agree there's some issues with oil starvation under the #5, but there's no need to build a new block to address that! :eek: Regardless, I agree Ilmor has done a fantastic job with converting the V10... I just dont agree with your comments that the factory block has to be replaced to withstand marine absue as it's a fairly stout piece and should have no issues withstanding 'only' <700hp.
Originally Posted by SHMOE
(Post 3410159)
KUDOS on the underground TT, great builders. You haven't happened to play with any TTG's lately have you?:evilb:
Originally Posted by darkostoj
(Post 3410224)
well...technically its the 96-99 GTS with forged internals and 97-99 RT/10's. I just said 97-99 to make it easier.
I've been planning on putting turbo's on my 98 sometime soon here. |
Originally Posted by SS930
(Post 3410301)
Dave,
No disrespect to Alexi or any of the other guys at Ilmor, but it's BS to say the stock block cant handle 700 hp or less under the stresses typically seen on the water or on the street. As mentioned, one of my Viper's is making twice this power and the other is a dedicated road racing car... and it does see PLENTY of stress every time it's used... no cruising at 3500 rpm or idling through no wake zones with that engine! Likewise, I know of countless track and race cars (including factory cars) using the stock block and I've never heard of a single BLOCK failure!!! Now I would agree there's some issues with oil starvation under the #5, but there's no need to build a new block to address that! :eek: Regardless, I agree Ilmor has done a fantastic job with converting the V10... I just dont agree with your comments that the factory block has to be replaced to withstand marine absue as it's a fairly stout piece and should have no issues withstanding 'only' <700hp. point, and good luck with the TT conversion... you'll love it! :drink: I already stated that the block routinely handles 1500 plus for short periods of time. Hennesy has shown that to be the case as well. Im sure you build a wicked engine but until you establish an track record of selling against Ilmor and Boostpower with warranty backed services, Ill believe what those guys say. (Of note: It would be way better for me if you were "right" and this other guys were "wrong") No disrespect to your ability to build what sounds like a thrilling and extremely nasty street machine. UD |
So are saying the gen 4 blocks don't have this issue?
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We use the factory blocks with our spec internals. The Gen 4 is vvt'd for the car and also our 650 engine. The 725 has different valve train but the block remains the same. We have engines out there with over 500 hrs on them and some have touched 600 with minimal maintenance. You aint racing a 1200+ hp engine for that long nor are you going to make it last that long in a high performance marine application. At least not by our standards.
I love the TT vipers, they are bada$$ but its a whole different animal. And one which I would like a ride in!! |
Ray, you could'nt have said that any better than I could. The biggest problem that I have seen in the pasy years is that some people out would put a high horse power in a boat that they pulled out of a car and thay think its cool. But when the damn thing blows up and no one left on the boat to say "what the hell happen". Thats why we use marine engines in boats. But why could'nt you use marine engines in trucks and cars ??
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Ilmordude- no block change from gen3-4 then?
Was there ever a block change? (or mod to aleviate the #5 rod issue) Boostpower had me send them detailed pictures of the block before quoting their 800 kit. UD |
Originally Posted by ILMORdude
(Post 3411019)
We use the factory blocks with our spec internals. The Gen 4 is vvt'd for the car and also our 650
Sunchaser... We're not talking bout putting a car motor directly into a boat. We're talking changing cam, compression, changing to marine fuel system, alternator, cooling etc. As for the boat to car, sure, as long as you swap out the cam. The thing is, is these motors run so "hot" that you still have a service interval that isn't desirable in a DD. In a strip car, well yeah, much are built the same as our boat motors. Usually higher boost and different compression though. Remember drag guys run high boost and high compression squeezing every ounce of power out. And plan on a tear down and inspection after every race weekend (well some). We keep the boost and compression low for longevity! |
Originally Posted by Tigeman
(Post 3411072)
Whoa whoa whoa... Let's back track here. Since when do you guys run a VVT? I thought you were totally N/A? I'm guessing we're using a diff lingo here.
Sunchaser... We're not talking bout putting a car motor directly into a boat. We're talking changing cam, compression, changing to marine fuel system, alternator, cooling etc. As for the boat to car, sure, as long as you swap out the cam. The thing is, is these motors run so "hot" that you still have a service interval that isn't desirable in a DD. In a strip car, well yeah, much are built the same as our boat motors. Usually higher boost and different compression though. Remember drag guys run high boost and high compression squeezing every ounce of power out. And plan on a tear down and inspection after every race weekend (well some). We keep the boost and compression low for longevity! These are Na/fuel Injected mills. UD |
Gotcha! My mind is stuck in turbo's right now! As I've been playing in a Diesel tonight. LOL
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