Any honest dealers left?
07-16-2011, 07:49 AM
#12
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Survey is something that should always be done as many have mentioned. As far as hours, the buyer should have asked for a computer print out too. Many shady characters in the marine industry. However, I believe David Woods at Pier 57 in Pickwick TN, Scott Shogren in Chicago, Phil @ Lip Ship are reputable and honest. I am sure there are many others out there too. I believe performance boat brokerage at LOTO is a straight shop, haven't heard any bad news about them either. Just have to talk with them and ask around. Sorry to hear about your buddy's experience.
07-16-2011, 08:12 AM
#13
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x2! Good news is the bad economy has forced a lot of the lousy bad dealers out of business. It has also forced the ones left to change their ways/pricing etc etc.
07-16-2011, 10:10 AM
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I feel there is many great dealers out there, but, getting to know the dealer you are working with, is by far the most important part of the equation...
Just because the dealer is great, they may not know everything about the boat. Was it brokered, taken in on trade, or just something they purchased for resale? Add too that, had they serviced the boat in the past or again, was it just in.
SURVEYS are important, too what level/detail you want looked into, it is imperative. Get it in writing if necessary... Many times the dealership, though trying to do the once over, may not know or discover any problems until the survey. This is especially true when it is a brokered boat!
I feel you get what you pay for, many times spending a few dollars up front, will save you hundered's in the long run.
Just because the dealer is great, they may not know everything about the boat. Was it brokered, taken in on trade, or just something they purchased for resale? Add too that, had they serviced the boat in the past or again, was it just in.
SURVEYS are important, too what level/detail you want looked into, it is imperative. Get it in writing if necessary... Many times the dealership, though trying to do the once over, may not know or discover any problems until the survey. This is especially true when it is a brokered boat!
I feel you get what you pay for, many times spending a few dollars up front, will save you hundered's in the long run.
07-16-2011, 12:00 PM
#15
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Friend of mine purchased a cruiser while he was out of the country from a large dealer network in the Florida panhandle. He wanted to have the boat delivered when he got home so regretfully he trusted the dealer and did everything site unseen without a survey.
Boat was listed as 250 hrs, he put in the sales contract that it was to have a full service listing plugs, cap rotor, oil, etc as part of the service.
After running the boat for a 2 weeks or so, maybe 5-10 hrs, one of the motors wouldnt start. Turns out it has a bad head gasket, starts tearing it down and this thing has obviously been leaking for a while from the manifolds or head gasket, major rust on the valves, springs etc. plugs were rusty as ****, one was so bad the head was taken to the shop with the plug, oil filters had a date of Sept/10 (bought this spring), rotors were badly worn, so none of the maintenance was done as agreed, top it all off it had 500 hrs on the motor when they hooked up a computer.
I realize he should have done a survey but he was buying from a dealer that supposedly had a good reputation so I guess he trusted them, He tried to work it out with the dealer and the owner basically told him to pound sand. If the dealer had done the service they were obligated to, they would have seen the water intrusion. What are the laws? Does a dealer have any responsibilty?
Boat was listed as 250 hrs, he put in the sales contract that it was to have a full service listing plugs, cap rotor, oil, etc as part of the service.
After running the boat for a 2 weeks or so, maybe 5-10 hrs, one of the motors wouldnt start. Turns out it has a bad head gasket, starts tearing it down and this thing has obviously been leaking for a while from the manifolds or head gasket, major rust on the valves, springs etc. plugs were rusty as ****, one was so bad the head was taken to the shop with the plug, oil filters had a date of Sept/10 (bought this spring), rotors were badly worn, so none of the maintenance was done as agreed, top it all off it had 500 hrs on the motor when they hooked up a computer.
I realize he should have done a survey but he was buying from a dealer that supposedly had a good reputation so I guess he trusted them, He tried to work it out with the dealer and the owner basically told him to pound sand. If the dealer had done the service they were obligated to, they would have seen the water intrusion. What are the laws? Does a dealer have any responsibilty?
Yet, on something that can and will absolutely destroy a house-hold budget, they are willing to pull the trigger on a boat that might cost as much as 600 times the price of a dog house and will simultaneously find some good ration as to why they can’t spend the extra time and money to go see the darn thing.
To answer your question regarding the honest dealers - - People are people and they will usually get away with whatever you allow them to get away with.
And as far as surveyors are concerned…. You need to be able to do your own inspections on top of that because there are lots and lots of deals where there was a surveyor involved and chit still goes down. Most of them are not worth the space they consume standing still.
In my opinion, if you don’t “know” the surveyor, you're about as good on your own as paying them to do a half-azz job concerning your money.
There is NO SUCH THING as “trust”. It’s a fairy tale. It’s a scam right from the beginning. If you trust anyone you may as well trust that Santa Clause will be bringing you that shinny new boat you always dreamed of.
Trusting humans and putting faith in Santa Clause are about equal to me.
Last edited by SDFever; 07-16-2011 at 12:03 PM.
07-16-2011, 12:23 PM
#16
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There is NO SUCH THING as “trust”. It’s a fairy tale. It’s a scam right from the beginning. If you trust anyone you may as well trust that Santa Clause will be bringing you that shinny new boat you always dreamed of.
Trusting humans and putting faith in Santa Clause are about equal to me.
Trusting humans and putting faith in Santa Clause are about equal to me.
Trust in my opinion is always earned, not percieved, that being said, in life we must trust people if we expect to ever succeed.
My phylosophy is: Trust in your self first, then your closest friends (for many of us, I am sure that list is a very short list),then "friend" aquaintences, after that comes the rest of our world.
Of course, people can be betrayed, but this is when you see who your true friends are, good luck, I hope you have that support group to fall back on.
If not, it is just quiet...
07-16-2011, 12:33 PM
#17
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I hope you are being just a tiny bit sarcastic? If not, I truly feel bad for you.
Trust in my opinion is always earned, not percieved, that being said, in life we must trust people if we expect to ever succeed.
My phylosophy is: Trust in your self first, then your closest friends (for many of us, I am sure that list is a very short list),then "friend" aquaintences, after that comes the rest of our world.
Of course, people can be betrayed, but this is when you see who your true friends are, good luck, I hope you have that support group to fall back on.
If not, it is just quiet...
Trust in my opinion is always earned, not percieved, that being said, in life we must trust people if we expect to ever succeed.
My phylosophy is: Trust in your self first, then your closest friends (for many of us, I am sure that list is a very short list),then "friend" aquaintences, after that comes the rest of our world.
Of course, people can be betrayed, but this is when you see who your true friends are, good luck, I hope you have that support group to fall back on.
If not, it is just quiet...
Yes, of course I have a dog !! But all kidding aside -
I understand exactly what you're saying and I could answer your concerns but in the interest of time..
None of what you said relates to buying a boat from someone. It just doesn't.
If you don't go inspect that boat from afar yourself, you are setting yourself up for failure and loss.
No amount of goodwill towards man or "positive belief" in others will keep you from getting ripped off.
This is not a spiritual conversation. It's merely about getting jacked in a deal where the purchaser basically caused it on his own. It's unfortunate.
You have to remember that humans in the boat business are a different type of human when compared to the good ones..
07-16-2011, 12:38 PM
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I hope you are being just a tiny bit sarcastic? If not, I truly feel bad for you.
Trust in my opinion is always earned, not percieved, that being said, in life we must trust people if we expect to ever succeed.
My phylosophy is: Trust in your self first, then your closest friends (for many of us, I am sure that list is a very short list),then "friend" aquaintences, after that comes the rest of our world.
Of course, people can be betrayed, but this is when you see who your true friends are, good luck, I hope you have that support group to fall back on.
If not, it is just quiet...
Trust in my opinion is always earned, not percieved, that being said, in life we must trust people if we expect to ever succeed.
My phylosophy is: Trust in your self first, then your closest friends (for many of us, I am sure that list is a very short list),then "friend" aquaintences, after that comes the rest of our world.
Of course, people can be betrayed, but this is when you see who your true friends are, good luck, I hope you have that support group to fall back on.
If not, it is just quiet...
The sheer number of crooks in boating would rival that of any other industry or circle of people.
It's not just an opinion.
07-16-2011, 12:55 PM
#19
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"Spiritual" is about as far from me personally as one can get..
Talking boats, I too agree the "buyer beware" is very real, in any business, but I guess I live in a different world than you because I have been able to find great people to deal with in the boating world.
Maybe my "trust" explanation has allowed me to find the relationships, or I have been just lucky?
Customer/dealerships realtionships start for me with customer service, then customer service, then.. customer service, finally price. I am not saying price is not important but, by not grinding for EVERY last penny on every single item, well I have found that to work well for me. The other thing is to pay my bill immediately!
I have also found when something does go wrong, and you built a realtionship, ie: you have been treated fair and as well; you have treated them fair, amazingly enough, you will get a favorable outcome. (One does have to be realistic!)
Maybe I am just nieve? I will be the first to tell you, I have been taken advantage of in my life, but.... The positives always out number the negative. Just be aware of what is going on around you.
Just a side note, when it does go bad... Dont be afraid to get even, It may not really help anything, but t sure does make one feel better!
Talking boats, I too agree the "buyer beware" is very real, in any business, but I guess I live in a different world than you because I have been able to find great people to deal with in the boating world.
Maybe my "trust" explanation has allowed me to find the relationships, or I have been just lucky?
Customer/dealerships realtionships start for me with customer service, then customer service, then.. customer service, finally price. I am not saying price is not important but, by not grinding for EVERY last penny on every single item, well I have found that to work well for me. The other thing is to pay my bill immediately!
I have also found when something does go wrong, and you built a realtionship, ie: you have been treated fair and as well; you have treated them fair, amazingly enough, you will get a favorable outcome. (One does have to be realistic!)
Maybe I am just nieve? I will be the first to tell you, I have been taken advantage of in my life, but.... The positives always out number the negative. Just be aware of what is going on around you.
Just a side note, when it does go bad... Dont be afraid to get even, It may not really help anything, but t sure does make one feel better!
Last edited by bajaholic; 07-16-2011 at 01:13 PM.
07-16-2011, 01:11 PM
#20
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"Spiritual" is about as far from me personally as one can get..
Talking boats, I too agree the Buyer beware is very real, in any business, but I guess either I live in a different world than you because I have been able to find great people to deal with in the boating world.
Maybe my "trust" explanation has allowed me to find the relationships, or maybe I have been just lucky.
Customer/dealerships realtionships start for me with customer service, then customer service, then.. customer service, finally price. I am not saying price is important but by not grinding for EVERY last penny on every single item, well I have found that to work well for me. The other thing is to pay my bill immediately!
I have also found if something does go wrong, and you have been treated fair and as well; you have treated them fair, amazingly enough, you will get a favorable outcome. (One does have to be realistic!)
Maybe I am just nieve and I will be the first to tell you, I have been taken advantage of in my life, but.... The positives always out number the negative. Just be aware of what is going on around you. Just a side note, when it does go bad... Dont be afraid to get even, It may not really help anything, but t sure does make one feel better!
Talking boats, I too agree the Buyer beware is very real, in any business, but I guess either I live in a different world than you because I have been able to find great people to deal with in the boating world.
Maybe my "trust" explanation has allowed me to find the relationships, or maybe I have been just lucky.
Customer/dealerships realtionships start for me with customer service, then customer service, then.. customer service, finally price. I am not saying price is important but by not grinding for EVERY last penny on every single item, well I have found that to work well for me. The other thing is to pay my bill immediately!
I have also found if something does go wrong, and you have been treated fair and as well; you have treated them fair, amazingly enough, you will get a favorable outcome. (One does have to be realistic!)
Maybe I am just nieve and I will be the first to tell you, I have been taken advantage of in my life, but.... The positives always out number the negative. Just be aware of what is going on around you. Just a side note, when it does go bad... Dont be afraid to get even, It may not really help anything, but t sure does make one feel better!
My commentation is kinda geared more towards the next newbie that is in hopes he can trust someone with the idea of representing a boat in a total fair & forthright manor.
I just don't see much of it out there. There are no Lemon laws in boats. There is very little protection with marine transactions and I feel it's always best to teach people how to expect the worst upfront.
After you know the evil you are dealing with, the situation actually lightens up and you can work from fact rather than hope.
There are not many purchases similar to buying a boat from my perspective. I think it requires a LOT more out of the buyer in terms of being informed, know what you're getting into etc...
Houses, cars, horses, and most other consumer material items are not as notorious for nasty surprises.
Just consider maritime law itself as a gauge... Nothing on Earth like it. NOTHING.
