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Rich Luhrs Commentary: Endurance Presents a “New Model" for Offshore Racing

Old 10-01-2011, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Top Banana
Here One more thing we are tossing around, we need to give everyone a chance to learn how to race like this. Back in the 60's and 70's we had Open class for the big boats that ran the long distance stuff, 180 to over 200 miles, but we also had the Production classes for the guy who has just started and needed to learn how to navigate and race....these smaller boats were run on 80 to 120 mile courses.

The Bacardi race for the smaller Production boats was out of Government cut in Miami, a quick turn to Fowey, back to Government Cut and then over to Bimini and back....miles were somewhere around 120. But the course still had the element of open ocean racing, and navigating.

So, HORBA is thinking two races for 2012, one in Florida in April and one in New York in September. The NY race would also have a shorter course, a triangle that goes around the sound about 100 miles.

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I think the shorter course would get a lot of interest, especially from the LI crowd. Many boats could run it without having to add extra gas, etc, ...would allow many of us to get a taste of the action....get bit by the bug and then try the bigger/longer race....hopefully this happens
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Top Banana
Here is my thinking looking forward to next year. We have a set number of simple classes already.

HORBA MARATHON CLASS RULES

Class A 42 to 50 feet 3 or more engines
Class B 30 to 41 feet 2 engines
Class C 25 to 33 feet Outboards and Single Inboard
Class D 18 to 24 feet Small Boat Class
Class H Historic Open & Production class categories

Any hull design is allowed, Deep V, Cats, Trihulls etc. As long as the design is considered safe for ocean passage, it is allowed.


If we take what we have going, the 271 mile Don Aronow Around Long Island race in September and add one more next year in Florida, say April sometime. That would cover both north and south and everyone in between, like South Carolina or Maryland.

One more thing we are tossing around, we need to give everyone a chance to learn how to race like this. Back in the 60's and 70's we had Open class for the big boats that ran the long distance stuff, 180 to over 200 miles, but we also had the Production classes for the guy who has just started and needed to learn how to navigate and race....these smaller boats were run on 80 to 120 mile courses.

The Bacardi race for the smaller Production boats was out of Government cut in Miami, a quick turn to Fowey, back to Government Cut and then over to Bimini and back....miles were somewhere around 120. But the course still had the element of open ocean racing, and navigating.

So, HORBA is thinking two races for 2012, one in Florida in April and one in New York in September. The NY race would also have a shorter course, a triangle that goes around the sound about 100 miles.

Below is an Open boat and a Production boat.

Confused?? Well they are both 35 foot Cigarettes, but the Open boat had a limit of 1,000 cu in and the Production boat had a limit of 700 cu in.
Hi Charlie. I have been following along with interest. I had been wondering if you were planning on going ahead with the Key West run in Nov. in light of the renewed interest, but by your post looks like possibly April of next year. My Nor Tech is going back to the Caribbean in Feb thru till June again so looks like I will miss that.
All the best,
Bob
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:55 AM
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I have been a fan of Offshore racing since I was ten, watching the Kaama Lady win a race on the Great South Bay. Bitten by the bug, 30 some years later I still enjoy the intense action of the sport though mostly as a spectator or a passenger in a few poker runs. The around Long Island Classic will hopfully provide a spark to the sport and has the potential to light the fires of many who are interested in getting involved. I think that in order for this and any other offshore racing event to become more mainstreamed is to get the coverage into the living rooms with some type of media coverage. Easier said then done for sure, but with all the new technology out there there has to be a way. As pointed out earlier there are many logistical challenges providing the fans a proper venue to watch, especially with an endurance event such as the ALI classic. Around the world Sailing events(dare I say) provide their fan base access via the web with real time GPS tracking, that allow fans to follow along on their smart phones etc. Also I know there are onboard cameras but they could be better, and cheaper then having helicopters in the air for the whole race. This is a great conversation and the event speaks for itself. Kudos to all involved in keeping this sport alive for future generations to enjoy.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:48 PM
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I have heard many try to compare offshore to nascar.... Its more like desert racing. Several orgs. Score HDRA etc. Look at the Baja 1000 you race for miles, you race for hours in the middle of nowhere, trying to finish much less win. No grandstands full of people, no cheering throngs when you finish/win. Its a sport of personal challange and self satisfaction. very very few have ever made money doing it. Mickey Thompson CORR and others tried stadium racing (beach/river racing) with some success, but I can tell you anyone that races offorad dreams of racing the Baja because ot the challange. Not the money or the fame. Today we have offshore racing where the winner is determined by who corners better and acellerats faster from bouy to bouy, yet who races offshore that doesnt dream of pointing the boat to a spot on the horizon, mashing the throttles in 4's~6's, airing the boat out and trying to keep it together while hopefully doing it faster than the next guy. Really, running an offshore boat in San Diego bay chasing potatoe chip unltd hydros vs being out of sight of land, 6 feet in the air, and hoping youron course is like comparing a McDonalds hamburger to a good steak, sure they are both 100% pure beef, but the satisfaction of eating them is just a bit diferent.
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:42 PM
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Charlie the A class why not twin engines also in there?? or are you trying to stop the OL dead on their tracks??
I just had to pull your leg on that one so nobody comes saying this in pure red mist or so..
In all fairness...all the comments I read after my post are so along the same lines of mine and well written that I truly see this sport being in a great future in the States!

Maybe the races ain't so often but they never was, this is what it is. Offshore racers globally even are a tight bunch.

Matt watching poker live or on TV is truly boring... so offshore is on the opposite end of the scale in my book regarding that.

And Bob... I'd truly love to see some Diesels in the mix.

PS I found some ASD 14's...

Last edited by MikeyFIN; 10-02-2011 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by elvisali
I think the shorter course would get a lot of interest, especially from the LI crowd. Many boats could run it without having to add extra gas, etc, ...would allow many of us to get a taste of the action....get bit by the bug and then try the bigger/longer race....hopefully this happens
With all due respect..If you want to try short course racing...that's what OPA is for. I respect Charlie's attempt to "increase appeal" with a shorter course option, but , in truth, the sport started with Around Long Island and Miami- Nassau events and everyone either entered...or didn't... Having run Around Long Island in an 18 footer I have little understanding of the "shorten the course" pleas. Either you're a racer....or you're not. No offense, but as soon as you start watering down the rules and providing "options"....you go right back down the same compromising path to disaster that got us where we are today. There are literally thousands of boats in the northeast that can make it around the entire course..... Even John Coan made it around in a modestly powered outboard a few years ago to set some kind of economy record.....All you need is a bit more fuel capacity...and Charlie...If you have to "learn Navigation" to race around a single land mass where in most cases all you do is avoid rocks, keep the land to your right, and take one heading from Plum Gut to Montauk...you have no business in a boat. and.....If, for instance, some of the boats have to make it all the way around the Island while others stop at say, Orient Point....you will instantly have confusion, with checkered flags at various locations and "winners" at two (or more)" finish lines"...add to that too many trophies with titles like "Around Long Island Champion---phase 2 , subchapter 9d"....and voila!..another mess.

Enough.....please!!!!!! This is exactly what the new race model is intended to stop. If this race taught us anything , it is better to have a dozen boats racing with a clearcut definition and comprehensible video/GPS coverage...than 50 boats in 20 classes bouncing around to God knows where and all happily sporting checkered flags at the end of the day...without a knowledgeable fan in sight.

Two more things and then I'm outta here:

Back in the day...it wasn't broke and didn't need fixing....but we did anyway.. Don't "fix" it again...especially before it even gets off the ground.

Mike A's Factory One and Two were made for this event and provide an opportunity for many builders to race their products heads up...Of course, Factory One fits beautifully into Class C...and Factory 2..into class B.

KISS!


T2x

Last edited by T2x; 10-03-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Apple a day
Does anyone remember the Golden Gate to Spruce Goose Chase? That was very interesting in that it involved manufacturers with identical power in the open ocean. Something like that again would be awesome.
Now that was an interesting event. The fact that all boats had equal power made it that much better.

Kurt
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:41 AM
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I have to agree with Rich. The race should be the race. If you can't handle it or aren't comfortable, then it isn't for you. How about this for a change of pace: the whiners adapt to the rules instead of the rules adapting to the whiners. If you can't make it on fuel, put in an extra fuel cell or a bunch of gas cans. This racing is not to see who has the prettiest boat or nicest crew uniforms. It's not tee-ball. There won't be a trophy for competing.

The goal should be to have as few classes as possible. I think most of these people have gotten so used to gps racing that they are worried about another boat being faster and having an "unfair" advantage. The equalizer is the ocean. Some days it will be flat as a pancake and other days it will be your worst nightmare. We ran our boat in a class dominated by outboards that were much faster than we were as long as it stayed flat. Our huge advantage came in rough water. When the seas picked up there was not a "P" boat that could keep up. That was a choice we made. We sacrificed top end for rough water handling. It paid off with a world championship.

If you think top speed will dominate, then go for it. You should have plenty of time for fuel stops along the way and still beat all of the boats set up for rough water. However, if it's rough you'll be waving to the other boats as they blow by you. But that's offshore racing. Not every day will be the right conditions for your boat.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by T2x
Enough.....please!!!!!! This is exactly what the new race model is intended to stop. If this race taught us anything , it is better to have a dozen boats racing with a clearcut definition and comprehensible video/GPS coverage...than 50 boats in 20 classes bouncing around to God knows where and all happily sporting checkered flags at the end of the day...without a knowledgeable fan in sight.

Two more things and then I'm outta here:

Back in the day...it wasn't broke and didn't need fixing....but we did anyway.. Don't "fix" it again...especially before it even gets off the ground.

Mike A's Factory One and Two were made for this event and provide an opportunity for many builders to race their products heads up...Of course, Factory One fits beautifully into Class C...and Factory 2..into class B.

KISS!


T2x
All good points.

Maybe if they had 4,352 classes for this race, they would have missed the point of man against the ocean.......Sports Illustrated July 15, 1974
Attached Thumbnails -horba-stories0001-medium-.jpg   -horba-stories0002-medium-.jpg  
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobthebuilder
Hi Charlie. I have been following along with interest. I had been wondering if you were planning on going ahead with the Key West run in Nov. in light of the renewed interest, but by your post looks like possibly April of next year. My Nor Tech is going back to the Caribbean in Feb thru till June again so looks like I will miss that.
All the best,
Bob

Hey Bob.....maybe others don't know that you own about 25 boats, but just because you have the big one out of the area, doesn't mean you are going to miss out on this kind of fun. Pick another of your fleet and we look forward to seeing you there.
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