Madcow

I really mean no disrespect, and I don't know much about this stuff, but looking at the pictures from this weekend, i think you might be better of in an open cockpit boat than with a poruly built canopy that is just going to collapse and create a ton of little knifes coming at you at 140 MPH. PLEASE let me reiterate, I mean NO disrespect to the people who have suffered ill ends. Im just saying, maybee it could have been better though out.

Gripenland

You want two single seater cockpits? Why not! It might be a little heavier but should be easier to design. Another alternative is to use a tandem layout. The front area will still be small and the weight should be less then two separate cockpits? The main drawback is visibility in the rear seat.

I totally agree. A separate cockpit is the most robust solution.

MikeyFIN

The force of the water pressure would,ve ripped the heads off their necks in an open boat. So even a colpasing canopy especially with Hans Aid and full face helmets would be much better.

MikeyFIN

Why did they get banned then back in the day in Class1 for example ?
My solution would be two capsules made into one with a distinct center wall as a support like a side by side monococque to keep the limbs flying around as little as possible but still have visibility to each other or other communication when the radio systems fail.
Add to that racesuits, full face helmets with Hans aid and air masks.

Gripenland

I did'n know that Class 1 banned the single seater cockpit?
It is still allowed in drag boats and outboard racing though.

With a two man side by side layout you minimize the number of hatches, which is a weak point. It also allows the crew to help each other during evacuation.

Pros and cons that the cockpit designer needs to take into consideration.

MikeyFIN

Taken from Warpaint Crash pics thread :

Yes I've followed his work closely and he sure is on the right path but there is room for improvement on the rollcage part at least.
The Tiger masks are excellent!
There's also a group of us here in North Europe that has been designing capsules for raceboats on and off for a " few years " (lack of funding puts off).

I see no diagonals to speak of to support the main rollbar and the front hoop together.. in an impact that cage would give in easily/collapse and press the occupants stuck. Do not ask how I know.. a lot of crashed rallycars have passed my eyes.
Hint a triangle is the strongest form of attaching and supporting anything.

Lets study the build of rollcages, I have done it as a profession for racecars and must say a good rollcage needs a lot moore cage ( read triangle diagonals) to it. Just check the Autoracing rulebooks like F.I.A. for salooncars for example there's just the minimun requirements there.. we personally build a lot more.

I wouldn't look too much at Nascar as their mentality still dates back in the 60's regarding rollcage engineering. Sure it has gotten the job done so far but mostly it has added weight and the Hans Aid has been the one most significant savior even in Nascar.

Google pics of racecars and take notice especially at the Appendix J art 253 in the FIA rulebook.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2914514/Ro...J-Art-253-0809

Also the Safety Handles for the hatch is a problem as they get stuck easily when getting a slight bend and there has been cases where a lid has had to been hammered open from the outside. Just like a slide intake in a motorcycle or a racecar gets stuck when getting bent.
IMO it needs to be something that can be ripped/kicked/hit open fast if needed.
In the U.I.M. Immersion tests at least those I've been we have a capsule which we let fall by itself 180 degrees head down and you have to open the hatch yourself strapped upside down..unless like myself can turn yourself head up ( thanks to my years in underwater rugby and my size ) and kick the hatch open with my both feet with my back against the boat.

I don't like the idea of a tunnel hatch either as it's a hole in a boats bottom plus the handle to open it most likely in a crash is stuck.
Therefore We need all the equipment to keep the person inside conscious and able to take himself out if needed or at least breathing and having airsupply. Which a boat has plenty with the nose up.

Therefore my take on all this safety talk is it's up to the racers themselves how much they invest on safety rather than being forced to do it.

MikeyFIN

Happened in 1991 or so. Stefano Casiraghis death banned that despite his death happening in an open boat, after 1991 all boats had to have only one cockpit.

If it would be banned in Dragboats and Powerboat circuit racing they'd had to add a passenger or switch them to Radio control..

You mean a hatch is a weak point always so limiting the number of hatches to one ( bigger) is better than say a tandem canopy with two hatches after each oither and a rollbar/ reinforcement in between ?

My take is that two "gullwings" could even work i.e one small hatch per side and reinforcement in between in the middle. I personally like the side by side canopy more although have raced in tandems or therefore...

Fredrik Z

Downside with two canopys is that you cant help eachother in the same way you can do when you sit together

Edit: and i dont think its allowed in many classes

MikeyFIN

Same applies with Tandem canopies.

Catastrophe

Dont mean to hijack the topic and I completly get the content of all this BUT arent these canopy topics in fact all about preventing major injury to the racers and to sustain best conditions possible until a human rescuer can help the racer?

There were a few rollovers and incidents this past week.

Is there a measured , recorded, elapsed time for each incident that officially shows the time between the accident and the time when a human rescuer first touches the involved racer ?