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Gratton SBI lawsuit

Old 03-01-2012, 07:48 AM
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Everyone assumed that the highly trained and tested ANGELS were on site to be UTILIZED........... Why did that not happen.... That is the bottom line here.....

IMO a bad decision by SOMEONE was made, not to deploy them first........... RIP

Last edited by Jolley; 03-01-2012 at 12:06 PM. Reason: RACE CONTROL evidently does not send in ANGELS ?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jolley
Everyone assumed that the highly trained and tested ANGELS were on site to be UTILIZED........... Why did that not happen.... That is the bottom line here.....

IMO a bad desicion by Race Control was made and we know how that ended........... RIP
You've heard the recorded tapes that Race Control keeps of every race? Really, cool!!!! Please enlighten us on how Race Control made a bad decision, hell please enlighten us on all the good decisions they made. In the event of an accident, please enlighten us on the policy and procedure of Race Control. Obviously Mr Allweiss has some insight into this as the Race Control personnel are not named in the lawsuit. So IYO how did Race Control make a bad decision?

Since Alvin so eloquently stated this incident is no longer an accident, why doesnt Mr Allweiss sue JC and the org for mashing down the throttles and making the boat flip twice. Its gotta be his fault for that too!!! Shame on JC

Joey was a great man, father, husband, etc. He will be deeply missed and though our interactions were brief, every time the man spoke to me, I learned something. Its a shame that this incident ever happened as he will be missed by all. Whats really sad is that most of you have created this witch hunt trying to place blame for this tragedy and basically basing your facts off of rumor and other peoples opinions with little to no facts of what really happened. None of us have heard the tapes. None of us were on the direct scene.

Why dont we sit back instead of taking sides, spreading more rumors, and/or stating our opinions and let Mr Allweiss present his case to the courts and see what the outcome is. If SBI and staff are found guilty in the court of law, then so be it, let them fry. But if they are exhonorated(sp) then what, who will you blame then? No matter the outcome, hopefully the racers took notes and are better prepared inside the cockpits and can survive any further ACCIDENTS.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by O.C.Barry
You state, "I personally have a hard time when people call it a racing accident." Really? I saw the incident, it was AN ACCIDENT.

I didn't know Joey but I know others, Sean Stinson, et al, that knew him well. I'll say first it's tragic and sad he is gone. But trashing John Carbonell and SBI is not positive for the sport. I don't know Mr. Carbonell but I sure do enjoy the races he puts on and I respect him. A lot of people seem to be missing that Mr. Allweiss (sp) to say the least is not a big fan of Mr. Carbonell. I was at Key West for this race. I can't remember the last time I was at a race Mr. Allweiss presented. Are there flaws in the racing organizations?, yes, but we still get to watch races. I don't speak from the couch, I've raced and stuffed a few boats myself. If improvments are needed let's move forward, but let's stop slamming SBI. There are inherent dangers in what we do, if a person can't accept the danger, they shouldn't race. Can rescue divers make an error? Sure, but they do the best they can. If you want extra insurance, do what Al Copeland did, get a helicopter and your own divers.
Thank you for that bit of education it was a racing accident. Let me try to CLARIFY what I was trying to say. He survived the RACING ACCIDENT, boat was at a full stop with no damage, He was still alive with no damage and could not release himself, what he needed was a little help. Maybe all he needed was somebody to reach in there and grab the latch and give it one last tug. Needless to say that did not happen.

I am not trashing any one of the guys named in the suit, I know they did not want this to happen, nobody does. I know there are concerns on how the rescue was executed and that needs to be addressed. Kinda like the message I was sending with the sea turtle and manatee. Did it not make you wonder why they stop a race for a animal and not a man. I'm pretty sure it would have been a bigger sh*t storm. If a animal would have been killed and that lawsuit and the whole State of Florida would kill offshore period in the State. I am not a fan of lawsuits at all, but offshore needs to pull it's out head of the sand and recognize, for the sport to continue to grow, if that will ever be possible. You need to go above and beyond expectations when it comes to Offshore Rescue. Offshore Racers have enough issues dealing with the sport and life and when there racing they can forget it all. After this INCIDENT or RACING ACCIDENT, do you not think... that won't be in their mind, will somebody be there for me? I don't believe most racers want or need that concern.

How ugly the suit gets I don't know, I would like to see a out of court settlement with the details being confidential and all partys, SBI, The Gratton Family and Mike A. in agreement to work together in fixing what is lacking.

This is March, I hear more people *****ing and giving their two cents about the lawsuit, then being constructive to address the ACCIDENT. As stated before, I know offshore will not merge(shame), but maybe Safety could merge for all the series. I have personel experiences with the Chattanooga Stars(even back in the IOGP days) and The Offshore Angels. These guys are good and professional with their combined knowledge and absolute power in Offshore Rescue. They could represent every series and have in place policy, procedure and TRAINING. I know it would be pricey, but since the incident, I started wondering on the short courses of today, is the helicoptor justified. I know we spent 20,000 for two jet rangers for the weekend for rescue at LOTO race. I just wonder how that money alone, could go for proper training and equipment. I'm pretty sure with a Offshore rescue group and trained and informed volunteers, you could surround the course with a faster response time and still have money left over for a rescue piggy bank.

Will there be a positive come out of this, I hope so. I would not like to see if you, O.C.Barry went racing again and you stuffed your boat and got trapped as your boat was sinking and your drowning and all a rescue diver needed to do was cut your shoe string. I would not want to listen to a spectator justfiy your drowning, There are flaws in the racing organization, but we still get to watch racing( Good for you). There are improvements needed lets move on(How are the improvements coming along) Can a rescue Diver make a mistake, Sure(No, They can't and they don't want too, and they need to train for other situations too). I just want you to know, I would give that spectator my same two cents for your INCIDENT or ACCIDENT.

Last edited by SUPERCATBOATS; 03-01-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:41 AM
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Thank You. I respect you as a Racer.. Why were the ANGELS not deployed immediately, is what was stated. I did not know that Race Control does not do that. My mistake and Thank you, Bill Jolley
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:00 PM
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If a sanctioning body that is sustaining a PROFIT from holding a race and skimping on safety then they need to be held responsible. Not saying this is the case, but if it is then it needs to be addressed. Personally I was shocked that an event of this nature does not have an ambulance on site. I am a drag racer. I race at some of the most hillbilly podunk budget race tracks, and at minimum they all have an ambulance.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by O.C.Barry
Fuss made??? Suing the sponsors? Yeah, great for the sport. NOT!

If I went on a mission, I'd probably ASK who may backup would be.

"Obvious errors" - rumor and innuendo. Ever listen to witness testimony in court? The witness recollections of the same accident can vary widely.

Is your last name Allweis?
No my name is not Allweis..

Unfortunately the American way is a lawsuit for anything that happens, perhaps the sponsors money may be more inclined towards the safety side of the sport.

You say you would ASK who your back up is, you are told the Navy and get get a guy in a rowboat, wouldn't you feel screwed

The bottom line is if any good comes out of it then the racers benefit.

It is unfortunate that it has gone this way but if safety improves then it may have been worth it.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by F1-00 Racing
You've heard the recorded tapes that Race Control keeps of every race? Really, cool!!!! Please enlighten us on how Race Control made a bad decision, hell please enlighten us on all the good decisions they made. In the event of an accident, please enlighten us on the policy and procedure of Race Control. Obviously Mr Allweiss has some insight into this as the Race Control personnel are not named in the lawsuit. So IYO how did Race Control make a bad decision?

.
Lets see---- sue the sponsors but not race control (not that i think race control should be included in the suit because i do not) hmmm tell me again it is not about M O N E Y
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pondrunner
When I do poker runs I sign a release form stating that I hold no one but myself responsible for accidental damages, injury or death. Do these racers do the same? Is the release form not worth the paper its printed on? Is it that easy for a lawyer to get around it?
Depends on who the lawyer is.If he's very good,he'll get around logic to make a case.We had a case here in Vancouver, involving a pleasure boater and a ferry.The pleasure boater went for a nap,having his young kid in the cockpit for a lookout.The pleasure boat drifted into the shipping lane with the ferry approaching at 25+kts in a very narrow passage way,blasting its horn several times.By the time they've realized the boat wasn't under control,they tried to turn the ferry abruptly but ran over the pleasure boat killing its occupants.I see this happening in Active Pass where any given time,there're dozens of fishermen pull away in the possible last minute before the ferry run them over.
The ferry corporation lost against the family suing, despite the fact the ferry carries hundreds of passengers at any given times, putting the lives of those on the ferry in danger, doing an evasive maneuvre in a tight place.Those years we didn't have mandatory boating licencing as today,which makes a pleasure boater accountable for their actions as well.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:21 PM
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The participants that were in our poker run (SOTW) they all signed waivers Still we were sued after two men died. Waivers written by lawyers are as good as toilet paper to other lawyers.

I keep saying this ---It is not about an award, it is about a settlement (watch and see)
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Old 03-01-2012, 06:47 PM
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Talked to Blake (Joey's Son) today about a fund raiser we are working on. If any of you had a clue then all this talk would stop because none of us know what the family is going through.
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