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Old 04-14-2012, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiderman
Sharkey............really a great explanation.........thx man
Word of advice, if you don't feel comfortable how close the chopper is, just turn away from it and give yourself some room.

If you're running a cat and the chopper's wash is blowing down into the entry of the tunnel, yes you can expect some unexpected results.

Just look at what happens when a few of the outboard tunnel hulls get too close to each other. The air pressure coming off the bow of the boats can make them both blow over simultaneously .
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:56 PM
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I think the term we could be looking for here is ground effect .... A rather long definition, but simply put it a disturbance of the wing tip vortex as the airfoil gets close to the ground, varies between aircraft types and surface vararations ..... I've never heard of it effecting boats like that but does make sense as it relates to pressure disturbances at speed, or in a hover ...... In those conditions I would think he's in and out of ground effect all the time ......

Fun ride if you know what your doing !!!!!!!! Lol .....
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:40 PM
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Can't help but chime in. After flying the World Championships in Key West for 30, yes 30, years, I agree the piston machines, simply because of the amount of moving parts in the engine, has more likelihood of an incident. A turbine chopper is 100% more reliable when flying in the shaded area of completing a safe autorotation in the event of a mechanical failure. The only danger of waves is the boat jumping up and hitting the helicopter. Any prudent pilot will not get in that position. The size or height of the waves has absolutely no affect on the airborne machine, however you cannot fly through a roostertail without unusual results. I've flown the helicopter and I've driven the boat in every aspect in close proximity and have never experienced any effect of wind on either as to affect the operation of either. Admittedly if chopper is flying low and ahead of a light cat it could add air to the tunnel, but as was said, with a slight turn the boat is out of it. I've seen some awesome things and a few tragic things over the years, but the helicopters if anything were there to assist instantly rather than having any part of the cause.

There is no better way to view a race or a poker run than from the comfort and vantage point of a helicopter. Safety is utmost and 99% of helicopter incidents read, "the machine was running just fine when the pilot hit the ............". same as pencils don't misspell words. Look forward to seeing everyone out there and helping our fine photographers get those shots one can only get from the air, albeit sometimes from only 10 feet in the air. Enjoy and come join me at Lake Lanier July 19-22 for the Pirates of Lanier Poker Run(formerly Castaways Poker Run) [URL="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn-5z973XmE"]
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by windship
Can't help but chime in. After flying the World Championships in Key West for 30, yes 30, years, I agree the piston machines, simply because of the amount of moving parts in the engine, has more likelihood of an incident. A turbine chopper is 100% more reliable when flying in the shaded area of completing a safe autorotation in the event of a mechanical failure. The only danger of waves is the boat jumping up and hitting the helicopter. Any prudent pilot will not get in that position. The size or height of the waves has absolutely no affect on the airborne machine, however you cannot fly through a roostertail without unusual results. I've flown the helicopter and I've driven the boat in every aspect in close proximity and have never experienced any effect of wind on either as to affect the operation of either. Admittedly if chopper is flying low and ahead of a light cat it could add air to the tunnel, but as was said, with a slight turn the boat is out of it. I've seen some awesome things and a few tragic things over the years, but the helicopters if anything were there to assist instantly rather than having any part of the cause.

There is no better way to view a race or a poker run than from the comfort and vantage point of a helicopter. Safety is utmost and 99% of helicopter incidents read, "the machine was running just fine when the pilot hit the ............". same as pencils don't misspell words. Look forward to seeing everyone out there and helping our fine photographers get those shots one can only get from the air, albeit sometimes from only 10 feet in the air. Enjoy and come join me at Lake Lanier July 19-22 for the Pirates of Lanier Poker Run(formerly Castaways Poker Run) [URL="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn-5z973XmE"]
No better person in the industry than you to answer that question John. Great info. from someone who's been on both sides many times of the helicopter and the boat.

I can't help but post this pic. of the late Tom Newby hanging out of a copter snapping pics.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:51 PM
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Faa rules....500 feet over traffice............
However, i agree with what you are saying..
I have 2000 hours in these things, flew with tom newby........just be safe and no hot dogging it !!!!!!!!

Last edited by Spiderman; 04-14-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:07 PM
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My hotdogging days were over in 1979 after I had no incidents even after flying those treetops as a new 40 hour indestructible pilot. These days i enjoy altitude and an attitude that has kept me and mine safe for the last 6250 hours in the air. Thy rotor RPM is thy staff of life. I want us all to be old pilots regards.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:18 AM
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John how bout take me up sometime??? I've always wanted ride in !!!! I'm over here on lake murray s.c. Gus.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by windship
Can't help but chime in. After flying the World Championships in Key West for 30, yes 30, years, I agree the piston machines, simply because of the amount of moving parts in the engine, has more likelihood of an incident. A turbine chopper is 100% more reliable when flying in the shaded area of completing a safe autorotation in the event of a mechanical failure. The only danger of waves is the boat jumping up and hitting the helicopter. Any prudent pilot will not get in that position. The size or height of the waves has absolutely no affect on the airborne machine, however you cannot fly through a roostertail without unusual results. I've flown the helicopter and I've driven the boat in every aspect in close proximity and have never experienced any effect of wind on either as to affect the operation of either. Admittedly if chopper is flying low and ahead of a light cat it could add air to the tunnel, but as was said, with a slight turn the boat is out of it. I've seen some awesome things and a few tragic things over the years, but the helicopters if anything were there to assist instantly rather than having any part of the cause.

There is no better way to view a race or a poker run than from the comfort and vantage point of a helicopter. Safety is utmost and 99% of helicopter incidents read, "the machine was running just fine when the pilot hit the ............". same as pencils don't misspell words. Look forward to seeing everyone out there and helping our fine photographers get those shots one can only get from the air, albeit sometimes from only 10 feet in the air. Enjoy and come join me at Lake Lanier July 19-22 for the Pirates of Lanier Poker Run(formerly Castaways Poker Run) [URL="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn-5z973XmE"]
Was waiting on John to chime in, no other expert needed! Most experienced turbine helicopter pilot I know, as a helicopter pilot myself, I have watched and admired Johns flying skills!
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:53 AM
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I had to chime in on this... grew up around aviation, my father flew huey's and oh-58 in the army (maint. test pilot) I too have had some stick time and I agree the rotory wing aircraft is a very complex machine, the turbin birds are much more reliable. As far as filming boat racing, i see the potential problem to be this, if there is a problem with the helo, a successuful auto looks grim due to lack of altitude and forward air speed. I could see where the rotor wash could pose an issue for the boat, I didn't realize the choppes got that close while filming. For rotory wing safety, they are much more complex than a fixed wing aircraft, thus much more areas to go wrong, such as engine failure, transmission, driveline and rotor system, normually when something does go wrong, if a successful auto can't be done, the results are usually pretty bad (alot of moving parts). Now, thats not to say, if I won the lottery I wouldn't be a proud new owner of a nice robinsin r44...they are piston powered but alot of redundancy goes into those birds and the power plant, but still a very nice aircraft. On our last ride in the r44, my buddy the pilot was showing my dad some "performance" like max climb rates on the robinson and my dad just laughed...he's used to max climb rates on the uh1's and the robsin will not even compare to that...still had a great time on the flight. I got to say...was a little nervous when i saw the needles break, I didn't think it would have that much "droop" but recovered ok with a little down collective
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:54 AM
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