Cummins 6BTA 5.9 Performance Build
11-19-2012, 07:20 AM
#21
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Joe, I hear ya on that one! The new Dmax doesn't smell, no smoke, and the inside of the tailpipe looks brand new, where's the fun in all that?
11-19-2012, 07:48 AM
#22
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They smell like urea, from all the after treatment. Catalyst, dpf and def injected in to burn up anything that resembles a by product of diesel combustion. Funny though these new "clean" diesel trucks are getting 12-16 mpg, a 94 dodge with a smokey dumb 12v gets mid to high 20's. Hell I got 19-20 out of my 800hp duramax
11-19-2012, 08:38 AM
#23
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11-19-2012, 09:21 AM
#24
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Guys, I'm going to get on my soap box a little here so be prepared, I mean no harm - LOL
Stock Cummins 300 B's left a slight trail behind the boat right from the factory. Get behind any sportfishermen with them running hard on a hazy day and you'll see a smoke trail.
Did crossbow not say he was building a killer pair of engines, I assume that means they have more than chrome valve covers on them? If so, he is going to be adding more fuel, the 300 B's stock fuel pumps never had aneroids, waste gates or anything to curtail smoke - hop them up and they smoke more. Can you add enough cool air to make it acceptable, yes you can with a lot of work. Adding a bigger turbo will do almost nothing on a 2 valve head.
You mention the "tuning" word, explain how you tune an engine with no timing advance mechanisms - you either tune for top end or bottom end but can't have both unless you build variability into the turbo charger. If you were to do anything like that, buy newer engines instead and you'll be ahead on $'s at the end of the day.
Remember this is a boat not a Dodge truck on a dyno where you accelerate and then add load or have a higher stall speed so the rpm's come up before load is applied on a drag strip - the boat goes in gear, prop is fully submerged and you have load, until the boat gets on plane you have lots of load.
I wish him all the luck, just saying a 2 valve head is a lot of work, you can make 425 hp out of one and 375hp-400hp steady and it will run pretty clean after that you kid yourself.
Stock Cummins 300 B's left a slight trail behind the boat right from the factory. Get behind any sportfishermen with them running hard on a hazy day and you'll see a smoke trail.
Did crossbow not say he was building a killer pair of engines, I assume that means they have more than chrome valve covers on them? If so, he is going to be adding more fuel, the 300 B's stock fuel pumps never had aneroids, waste gates or anything to curtail smoke - hop them up and they smoke more. Can you add enough cool air to make it acceptable, yes you can with a lot of work. Adding a bigger turbo will do almost nothing on a 2 valve head.
You mention the "tuning" word, explain how you tune an engine with no timing advance mechanisms - you either tune for top end or bottom end but can't have both unless you build variability into the turbo charger. If you were to do anything like that, buy newer engines instead and you'll be ahead on $'s at the end of the day.
Remember this is a boat not a Dodge truck on a dyno where you accelerate and then add load or have a higher stall speed so the rpm's come up before load is applied on a drag strip - the boat goes in gear, prop is fully submerged and you have load, until the boat gets on plane you have lots of load.
I wish him all the luck, just saying a 2 valve head is a lot of work, you can make 425 hp out of one and 375hp-400hp steady and it will run pretty clean after that you kid yourself.
but in this case he's right. A 12v is great for a truck IMHO, but a 24v common rail with electronic injection and all those goodies, makes for a much nicer package in a sport boat. Unless you don't mind the girls on the swim pad picking up a blackish tan during the day and then not coming back, in which case, smokey big single turbo 12v's are the ticket
11-19-2012, 10:21 AM
#25
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Guys, I'm going to get on my soap box a little here so be prepared, I mean no harm - LOL
Stock Cummins 300 B's left a slight trail behind the boat right from the factory. Get behind any sportfishermen with them running hard on a hazy day and you'll see a smoke trail.
Did crossbow not say he was building a killer pair of engines, I assume that means they have more than chrome valve covers on them? If so, he is going to be adding more fuel, the 300 B's stock fuel pumps never had aneroids, waste gates or anything to curtail smoke - hop them up and they smoke more. Can you add enough cool air to make it acceptable, yes you can with a lot of work. Adding a bigger turbo will do almost nothing on a 2 valve head.
You mention the "tuning" word, explain how you tune an engine with no timing advance mechanisms - you either tune for top end or bottom end but can't have both unless you build variability into the turbo charger. If you were to do anything like that, buy newer engines instead and you'll be ahead on $'s at the end of the day.
Remember this is a boat not a Dodge truck on a dyno where you accelerate and then add load or have a higher stall speed so the rpm's come up before load is applied on a drag strip - the boat goes in gear, prop is fully submerged and you have load, until the boat gets on plane you have lots of load.
I wish him all the luck, just saying a 2 valve head is a lot of work, you can make 425 hp out of one and 375hp-400hp steady and it will run pretty clean after that you kid yourself.
Stock Cummins 300 B's left a slight trail behind the boat right from the factory. Get behind any sportfishermen with them running hard on a hazy day and you'll see a smoke trail.
Did crossbow not say he was building a killer pair of engines, I assume that means they have more than chrome valve covers on them? If so, he is going to be adding more fuel, the 300 B's stock fuel pumps never had aneroids, waste gates or anything to curtail smoke - hop them up and they smoke more. Can you add enough cool air to make it acceptable, yes you can with a lot of work. Adding a bigger turbo will do almost nothing on a 2 valve head.
You mention the "tuning" word, explain how you tune an engine with no timing advance mechanisms - you either tune for top end or bottom end but can't have both unless you build variability into the turbo charger. If you were to do anything like that, buy newer engines instead and you'll be ahead on $'s at the end of the day.
Remember this is a boat not a Dodge truck on a dyno where you accelerate and then add load or have a higher stall speed so the rpm's come up before load is applied on a drag strip - the boat goes in gear, prop is fully submerged and you have load, until the boat gets on plane you have lots of load.
I wish him all the luck, just saying a 2 valve head is a lot of work, you can make 425 hp out of one and 375hp-400hp steady and it will run pretty clean after that you kid yourself.
Watch this video especially the in cab views you can see the smoke or lack of it out the right fender. Little at the start but not bad for 1200HP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beBIbtnVRoQ
11-19-2012, 10:55 AM
#27
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cant put a stock 12v piston with a 24 v head.... the injectors are at an angle into the spray bowl on a 12v, and 90* down on a 24v, you'll blow torch your aluminum crowns right off....
11-19-2012, 11:04 AM
#28
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No offense but I disagree on your "tuning" statement. With the advances in tuning you could get it perfect. However it would cost a good amount of money, basically have to live tune it...The key to making this really work would be air lots and lots of air. I had triples on my Cummins back a few years ago that flowed 2400CFM, my freinds built another triple setup for H&S race truck (below) that flow almost 4000CFM.
Watch this video especially the in cab views you can see the smoke or lack of it out the right fender. Little at the start but not bad for 1200HP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beBIbtnVRoQ
Watch this video especially the in cab views you can see the smoke or lack of it out the right fender. Little at the start but not bad for 1200HP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beBIbtnVRoQ
These trucks with triple turbo,s are making boost at the line and they don,t have to spool up anymore ,I have a twin turbo ram 2500 ,if I am at partial throttle at 55 mph in overdrive lock up ,and floor it so it will not shift back in 3 th ,the smoke is insane ,some people will stop at traffic lights to warn me that my truck is having a blown up engine ..haha
11-19-2012, 11:14 AM
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Think Joe meant it takes time to spool up the turbo (s) when they are large ,and therefore it would smoke a lot especially on a mechanical pump that cannot be set up like an ECU with common rail injectors where there are parameters that can control all sort loads.
These trucks with triple turbo,s are making boost at the line and they don,t have to spool up anymore ,I have a twin turbo ram 2500 ,if I am at partial throttle at 55 mph in overdrive lock up ,and floor it so it will not shift back in 3 th ,the smoke is insane ,some people will stop at traffic lights to warn me that my truck is having a blown up engine ..haha
These trucks with triple turbo,s are making boost at the line and they don,t have to spool up anymore ,I have a twin turbo ram 2500 ,if I am at partial throttle at 55 mph in overdrive lock up ,and floor it so it will not shift back in 3 th ,the smoke is insane ,some people will stop at traffic lights to warn me that my truck is having a blown up engine ..haha
Here is a quick vid of my old truck spooling with the trips.
