Dealer won't fund Factory, Need Advice
12-22-2012, 07:48 PM
#442
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Try it sometime. Type your first and last name in, along with the city and state in which you live. You might be surprised what is out there.
12-22-2012, 08:01 PM
#443
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All bs aside, where is the money ocm cleared from selling the nortech?? I realize we are all type A's and most of us (including myself) have whicked A.D.D. , but come on, OCM has commented, and certainly has been following this thread and has yet to say where 150k+ is
12-22-2012, 08:02 PM
#444
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Lets take a look at this objectively for a minute..
One guy is a convicted thief.
One guy is an upstanding businessman.
The convicted thief ironically enough is convicted for his business doing shady paperwork. He now claims the upstanding business man is lying about liens and funny paperwork.. LOL (really?)
So you geniuses crucify the upstanding businessman's reputation and his business based on the a few words/posts from a convicted criminal.
30 pages later it's... "Hey wait a minute.. This guy is a criminal! (which there is a long thread on this board about it already), maybe we can't believe every word he says? Especially about BS paperwork being,that this is THE VERY THING he was convicted of?"
Ya don't say....
Now lets look at the Tim side of this.. OCM has been in biz for 9 years. Where's all the posts from all these shady deals? Where's the unsatisfied customers?
HUNDREDS OF POSTS on this thread, with everyone looking at it, and NOT ONE NEGATIVE POST FROM ONE OF TIM'S CUSTOMERS.
Lots of accusations though? Lots of him supposedly using this money for working capital? Lots of "I hope he has an accident" (Tim being a Husband and a father), and everything else under the sun.
-----------------------------
Lets get to part 2 of this, Devil's Advocate time.
What happens if Tim sends "progression payments" (something that has never been asked for before?). What happens if something isn't delivered on time? What happens if the customer rejects the boat and asks Tim for his $$ back?
Now OCM owns a boat, and has to refund the $$ as well?
What happens if Tim sends the progression payment, and now the customer backs out? Now Tim is out 80K, plus refund the money?
Most reputable builders will take a deposit on the build. They will then take the balance when the boat is complete. (Unless it is something that is completely custom that they don't feel they could sell to another customer easily)
If a manufacturer is asking for "progression" payments then you are already in a situation.
(Not saying this is the case with Frisini)
I'm not sure how it works out there, but out here.. Generally speaking if you have to pay as you go, the odds are up there you might not even get your boat at the end of the day. Or how can you expect them to fulfill any warranty work if they don't have the $$ behind them? What about liability insurance etc?
If a dealer has held the money that is in the interest of the customer, not themselves. The $$ is the only leverage against a mfg, and should be held until delivery of the boat.
----------------------------
Part 3.
Yes I know Tim. No I didn't write this at his request. Yes I did speak to Tim about the situation a day or two ago, but I didn't get into specific details of it with him. I just told him you need to get that offline now and tried to help him do just that.
I would ask everyone though to look at it objective and ask yourself.. What would you do if you were in Tim's situation? In the customer? In the mfg?
Customer - I'd ask for a full refund or a boat
Tim's - I'd ask for the boat to be completed and signed off by the customer before I sent a nickel.
Mfg - I'd finish the boat now and demand payment upon completion and sign off.
If Tim sends progression payments, or even the balance in full at the customers request.. If I was him, I'd ask to be released from any liability to do with the deal, whether the customer signs off on the boat or not.
Now for OSO. Tim has asked Stephanie Torrez to see if he could have this thread taken down before it spiraled out of control. I know because I gave him her #. I called her to ask her as well if on nothing else as a professional courtesy it could be taken down, while Tim worked it out with the customer / mfg. I was told it had to go through an entire "flag" process, and be reviewed (could take days?) and threads are not removed at a whim.
I am going to call BS on that. I have seen threads instantly removed off of this board without days of review etc. This one should have been removed when it was posted. You're not gonna damage Chuck's reputation at all.. He's a criminal. The only thing his thread did was run Tim and OCM through the mud.. and it doesn't matter how the thread turns out. That "seed" of doubt / faith has been forever planted with regard to OCM. Later in life when the thread is bumped nobody is going to read 30 pages to find out it's not Tim but... ?? When somebody searches OCM this thing will forever come up.
On my board if something like this happens, I'd take it down and then wait for to see how it turns out before ruining someones business/livelihood/reputation.
And "IF" it turns out that Tim was not in the wrong. Will all of you that piled on and thrashed on OCM with accusations from working capital, to BK, to calling him a criminal. Will you apologize? Will you edit your posts? Would you in fact give Tim a chance to earn your business? No.. You'll just jump onto the next piece of drama and offer armchair legal advice, and armchair convictions without knowing anything of the situation, because that's the internet.
If Tim is in the wrong and spent that $$.. (which I don't believe he did) believe me I'll build the cross to crucify him.. But I'd certainly not take the word of Chuck (convicted of shady paperwork) about a shady paperwork situation, over the word of Tim Mcdonald, upstanding business man, family man, and part of the community both boating and local.
RD
One guy is a convicted thief.
One guy is an upstanding businessman.
The convicted thief ironically enough is convicted for his business doing shady paperwork. He now claims the upstanding business man is lying about liens and funny paperwork.. LOL (really?)
So you geniuses crucify the upstanding businessman's reputation and his business based on the a few words/posts from a convicted criminal.
30 pages later it's... "Hey wait a minute.. This guy is a criminal! (which there is a long thread on this board about it already), maybe we can't believe every word he says? Especially about BS paperwork being,that this is THE VERY THING he was convicted of?"
Ya don't say....
Now lets look at the Tim side of this.. OCM has been in biz for 9 years. Where's all the posts from all these shady deals? Where's the unsatisfied customers?
HUNDREDS OF POSTS on this thread, with everyone looking at it, and NOT ONE NEGATIVE POST FROM ONE OF TIM'S CUSTOMERS.
Lots of accusations though? Lots of him supposedly using this money for working capital? Lots of "I hope he has an accident" (Tim being a Husband and a father), and everything else under the sun.
-----------------------------
Lets get to part 2 of this, Devil's Advocate time.
What happens if Tim sends "progression payments" (something that has never been asked for before?). What happens if something isn't delivered on time? What happens if the customer rejects the boat and asks Tim for his $$ back?
Now OCM owns a boat, and has to refund the $$ as well?
What happens if Tim sends the progression payment, and now the customer backs out? Now Tim is out 80K, plus refund the money?
Most reputable builders will take a deposit on the build. They will then take the balance when the boat is complete. (Unless it is something that is completely custom that they don't feel they could sell to another customer easily)
If a manufacturer is asking for "progression" payments then you are already in a situation.
(Not saying this is the case with Frisini)
I'm not sure how it works out there, but out here.. Generally speaking if you have to pay as you go, the odds are up there you might not even get your boat at the end of the day. Or how can you expect them to fulfill any warranty work if they don't have the $$ behind them? What about liability insurance etc?
If a dealer has held the money that is in the interest of the customer, not themselves. The $$ is the only leverage against a mfg, and should be held until delivery of the boat.
----------------------------
Part 3.
Yes I know Tim. No I didn't write this at his request. Yes I did speak to Tim about the situation a day or two ago, but I didn't get into specific details of it with him. I just told him you need to get that offline now and tried to help him do just that.
I would ask everyone though to look at it objective and ask yourself.. What would you do if you were in Tim's situation? In the customer? In the mfg?
Customer - I'd ask for a full refund or a boat
Tim's - I'd ask for the boat to be completed and signed off by the customer before I sent a nickel.
Mfg - I'd finish the boat now and demand payment upon completion and sign off.
If Tim sends progression payments, or even the balance in full at the customers request.. If I was him, I'd ask to be released from any liability to do with the deal, whether the customer signs off on the boat or not.
Now for OSO. Tim has asked Stephanie Torrez to see if he could have this thread taken down before it spiraled out of control. I know because I gave him her #. I called her to ask her as well if on nothing else as a professional courtesy it could be taken down, while Tim worked it out with the customer / mfg. I was told it had to go through an entire "flag" process, and be reviewed (could take days?) and threads are not removed at a whim.
I am going to call BS on that. I have seen threads instantly removed off of this board without days of review etc. This one should have been removed when it was posted. You're not gonna damage Chuck's reputation at all.. He's a criminal. The only thing his thread did was run Tim and OCM through the mud.. and it doesn't matter how the thread turns out. That "seed" of doubt / faith has been forever planted with regard to OCM. Later in life when the thread is bumped nobody is going to read 30 pages to find out it's not Tim but... ?? When somebody searches OCM this thing will forever come up.
On my board if something like this happens, I'd take it down and then wait for to see how it turns out before ruining someones business/livelihood/reputation.
And "IF" it turns out that Tim was not in the wrong. Will all of you that piled on and thrashed on OCM with accusations from working capital, to BK, to calling him a criminal. Will you apologize? Will you edit your posts? Would you in fact give Tim a chance to earn your business? No.. You'll just jump onto the next piece of drama and offer armchair legal advice, and armchair convictions without knowing anything of the situation, because that's the internet.
If Tim is in the wrong and spent that $$.. (which I don't believe he did) believe me I'll build the cross to crucify him.. But I'd certainly not take the word of Chuck (convicted of shady paperwork) about a shady paperwork situation, over the word of Tim Mcdonald, upstanding business man, family man, and part of the community both boating and local.
RD
any way you slice it .1 guy says its okay to use the $ for working capital .yet another condems for selling and not paying the bank whats it gonna be theirs only so much $$$
12-22-2012, 08:11 PM
#445
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I'm sorry Chuck...
Lots of things I'd like to say to all the hypocrites typing... but you know it will do no good... I'll do my best to keep it civil.
Chuck is not a thief... thieves steal cars and sell them for parts...
Chuck had an employee buying cars from a crook.... the crook got busted and dragged Chuck's employee into the mess..... (who probably doesn't have any money to pay $$ he embezzled.... so they went to the owner) is it really that hard to understand?
I'm really surprised nobody has not stated it so far...
Do you think, maybe.... OCM heard of Chuck's unfortunate circumstances and maybe..., just maybe, tried to take advantage of him??
(Dealers have flexibility to produce a title (it's in the mail!)
(sell the boat... we'll worry about a lien/title later!!)(Have you ever got one the same day of purchase?)
Chuck would not have brought it here... unless OCM dared him to???
"Go ahead, nobody will believe you... you got a record!!"
Chuck,
Your acts of kindness, charity, and generosity do not resemble anything of a thief...and have endured before/during/ and after all the BS...
I'm sure you get a lot of satisfaction delivering those presents to the less fortunate... keep up the good work!
Thank You!!
Lots of things I'd like to say to all the hypocrites typing... but you know it will do no good... I'll do my best to keep it civil.
Chuck is not a thief... thieves steal cars and sell them for parts...
Chuck had an employee buying cars from a crook.... the crook got busted and dragged Chuck's employee into the mess..... (who probably doesn't have any money to pay $$ he embezzled.... so they went to the owner) is it really that hard to understand?
I'm really surprised nobody has not stated it so far...
Do you think, maybe.... OCM heard of Chuck's unfortunate circumstances and maybe..., just maybe, tried to take advantage of him??
(Dealers have flexibility to produce a title (it's in the mail!)
(sell the boat... we'll worry about a lien/title later!!)(Have you ever got one the same day of purchase?)
Chuck would not have brought it here... unless OCM dared him to???
"Go ahead, nobody will believe you... you got a record!!"
Chuck,
Your acts of kindness, charity, and generosity do not resemble anything of a thief...and have endured before/during/ and after all the BS...
I'm sure you get a lot of satisfaction delivering those presents to the less fortunate... keep up the good work!
Thank You!!
12-22-2012, 08:15 PM
#446
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Looks like we don't need to wait 'til page 70 - what a complete cluster. Let's see if I got this right...OCM can't release funds to anyone without a release of liability for the delivery of the boat and a lien release for the Nor-Tech. But they can't release the funds to Chuck's bank, because they're under contract with Frisini to build the boat. The bank can't release the lien unless the have collateral to cover the unpaid balance of Chuck's Nor-Tech loan. And Frisini can't finish the build 'til they can be guaranteed of funds upon completion. I don't think there is any easy solution without the bank, OCM, Chuck, and Frisini all agreeing to next steps. The poor guy that bought the Nor-Tech now has to pray for a quick outcome. Just think...all of this could've been prevented by closing out the first loan and opening a new one.
12-22-2012, 08:16 PM
#447
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it,s ok,im not bothered that fleg does not like my spelling,i am getting a kick out of how much it bothers him,he is no doubt a simple minded person and not very educated.i am guilty of having an old computer and no spellcheck.fleg and chuck can dwell on my spelling,because they know im correct at what im saying and that,s how they attempt to fight back,thats all they have,
You are correct on one account though.. I'm not highly educated I did finish high school, and have no college background.. I have been in business for myself though since 1991 and life has been pretty good to me.. I have had my business related ups and downs though, and to be truthful most of the downs came from either employees or family members that I trusted that ultimately cost me money in the end.. So I know that Sh!t flows down hill and if the one guilty guy doesn't have it they come after the next guy inline and it's usually the guy at the top of the ladder holding the bag!! Fortunately for me it was just nickels compared to what Chuck had to go through..
Good luck Chuck like I said I truly believe this whole thing is gonna be over with soon..
Last edited by fleg1; 12-22-2012 at 08:25 PM. Reason: speeling
12-22-2012, 08:19 PM
#449
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You guys should google Garvey car sales, they are a huge player up north... The fact that they still do business with Chuck should speak huge volumes to any business minded guy on this board whos trying to form an opinion
12-22-2012, 08:33 PM
#450
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Well Mike I do believe the only simple minded uneducated person in this whole thread is you.. I mean after all your the one that thinks because Chuck had to plead guilty for what his employees did within his company makes him a criminal that's just asinine at best..
You are correct on one account though.. I'm not highly educated I did finish high school, and have no college background.. I have been in business for myself though since 1991 and life has been pretty good to me.. I have had my business related ups and downs though, and to be truthful most of the downs came from either employees or family members that I trusted that ultimately cost me money in the end.. So I know that Sh!t flows down hill and if the one guilty guy doesn't have it they come after the next guy inline and it's usually the guy at the top of the ladder holding the bag!! Fortunately for me it was just nickels compared to what Chuck had to go through..
Good luck Chuck like I said I truly believe this whole thing is gonna be over with soon..
You are correct on one account though.. I'm not highly educated I did finish high school, and have no college background.. I have been in business for myself though since 1991 and life has been pretty good to me.. I have had my business related ups and downs though, and to be truthful most of the downs came from either employees or family members that I trusted that ultimately cost me money in the end.. So I know that Sh!t flows down hill and if the one guilty guy doesn't have it they come after the next guy inline and it's usually the guy at the top of the ladder holding the bag!! Fortunately for me it was just nickels compared to what Chuck had to go through..
Good luck Chuck like I said I truly believe this whole thing is gonna be over with soon..
