The Future of Powerboat Values
01-30-2013, 08:21 AM
#11
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More than half the boats on my lake are wakeboard boats and only 10 actually use the boat the way they should.... the rest just come to the sandbar and play there meaningless music so loud that all you hear is loud noises.
Last edited by chrisf695; 01-30-2013 at 08:23 AM.
01-30-2013, 08:23 AM
#12
I'm on the long range planning committee at my Yacht Club, and was maknig the point the other day that the demographics of boating are changing.
People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.
As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).
On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.
I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).
People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.
As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).
On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.
I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).
Great synopsis......+1
But also add:
1. Environmental concerns (manatee/no wake) make go fast boats less appealing. Engines are getting more complex (catalytic converters have been implemented) and therefore taken another step away from the shade tree mechanic.
2. Kids think a Prius is cooler than a Camaro/Mustang! Maybe a hybrid go fast will get their attention
3. Technology excites this generation (video games, IPhones) and go fast boats are not at the forefront of this by any means. After all boats in video games never break down!
I was told at a car show once that you will always like the stuff you liked in high school. My dad's generation was the 57 Chevy and 64 Mustang type stuff (I appreciate those cars but would never buy one!). T-Buckets are that way for my dad's generation. Go fast boats popularity is going to fade as the people that appreciate them age..... This is happening with golf as well (baby boomers loved that game, gen x/y not so much).
Builders need to adapt or die.....NorTech did it successfully with their CC line.
01-30-2013, 08:38 AM
#13
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01-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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01-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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Pretty much agree with most of the assessments....
The tide is going out in the go-fast community due to dynamic demographic changes.
The cruiser & hi end fishing market face significant head winds in the next 5 years as baby boomers become net sellers as their life winds down....
Boating like golf and a number of other hobbies will have to significantly evolve to cater to a generation that literally has no money in the bank.
It's a major structural issue in the upper end of the economy the next 5-10 years.....
The tide is going out in the go-fast community due to dynamic demographic changes.
The cruiser & hi end fishing market face significant head winds in the next 5 years as baby boomers become net sellers as their life winds down....
Boating like golf and a number of other hobbies will have to significantly evolve to cater to a generation that literally has no money in the bank.
It's a major structural issue in the upper end of the economy the next 5-10 years.....
01-30-2013, 09:20 AM
#16
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I'm on the long range planning committee at my Yacht Club, and was maknig the point the other day that the demographics of boating are changing.
People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.
As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).
On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.
I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).
People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.
As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).
On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.
I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).
I actually take offense to this. Maybe it cause I am an 80's baby and so are all my friends. Remember I am only speaking for 80's kids (90's kids I will leave out to dry).
Last I checked though of the 18 cars I have owned all but my current Escalade were stick. Heck i even make my GF have a stick in her Audi. I worked in a garage for 7.5 yrs from service to front and back counter. Most everyone that I worked with was also my age and born in the 80's. We rebuilt many cars over that time including our own, and my personal 500+ rwhp 2001 blown Mustang.
I have never owned an ipad or even a video game for that matter.
Now I can only speak for my circle of friends and coewokers from the 80's but as far as tech, know how, will, and hardwork goes you couldn't be further from the truth.
I will say some things that we are on a disadvantage is the job market, advancment in jobs, the amount of "qualified" people, student loans, etc will always be a burden for most of us. Sadley my generation, the 90's babies, and so on are going to be dealt an up hill battle that has no light in sight at the moment. That doesn't mean many won't over come all that but it certainly isn't the same streets your age group had to walk to get were they are today.
Lastly I am a used boat "in the market" guy born in the 80's. You could not pay me any amout of money to take a jetski over a powerboat. Give me a proven hull that is a wave crusher, big block power, and a noisey and mean sound. That's what it is all about.
Last edited by Nate5.0; 01-30-2013 at 09:25 AM.
01-30-2013, 09:23 AM
#17
One more consideration, if rare wave crushing boats were collectible and rising in value then there wouldn't be any Apaches available! You can buy a 47 like Broken Arrow or Spirit of Apache for less than a new Top Gun! You could buy both 47s for less than Phil is asking for the 50 SS Voodoo....
Values will go no where as demand dries up and eventually drop when someone wants to sell something.
Values will go no where as demand dries up and eventually drop when someone wants to sell something.
01-30-2013, 09:29 AM
#18
Pretty much agree with most of the assessments....
The tide is going out in the go-fast community due to dynamic demographic changes.
The cruiser & hi end fishing market face significant head winds in the next 5 years as baby boomers become net sellers as their life winds down....
Boating like golf and a number of other hobbies will have to significantly evolve to cater to a generation that literally has no money in the bank.
It's a major structural issue in the upper end of the economy the next 5-10 years.....
The tide is going out in the go-fast community due to dynamic demographic changes.
The cruiser & hi end fishing market face significant head winds in the next 5 years as baby boomers become net sellers as their life winds down....
Boating like golf and a number of other hobbies will have to significantly evolve to cater to a generation that literally has no money in the bank.
It's a major structural issue in the upper end of the economy the next 5-10 years.....
This has already hit builders like Viking.... They had 40 brand new 2011s in inventory last year and still raised prices on new 2012s! Many longtime sport fish owners have sold and not replaced or replaced with day fishing boats like CC's. No need for a battlewagon that guzzles $1200 an hour in fuel to go fishing, these guys are older now and don't want to fish all day anymore anyway. CC's offer a good ride, much better fuel economy and speed to get away from inclement weather if it approaches. Don't need anywhere near the maintenance (labor and expense) of the sport fish either.
01-30-2013, 09:34 AM
#19
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IMO present day values for used boats are very high. I remember shopping for a boat 6 years ago and the same boats I was looking at (mid 90's 24-27 foot boats) are selling for just as much today as they were in 2006! I dont see the "deals" out there whatsoever (especially in Seattle) where prices are sky high for anything that is considered a performance boat. When I looked a year ago you couldnt find a boat with a big block and over 22 feet for less than $10k (regardless of how old the boat was).
01-30-2013, 09:58 AM
#20
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I'm on the long range planning committee at my Yacht Club, and was maknig the point the other day that the demographics of boating are changing.
People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.
As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).
On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.
I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).
People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.
As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).
On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.
I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).
I agree that a merc 900sci 1075, 1350, etc is out of my league in terms of mechanical expertise. But a 350 or 454? I can tear them apart and put them together all day long. Still know my way around carbs as well, though efi set ups are nice. Check out a thread I started quite some time back
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ng-owners.html
And I know this thread was about the future of pricing, so here's a young guys prediction... I think the used market will be up a bit over where it was 3-5yrs ago, but will turn down as baby boomer boats come up for sale and it "floods" in the next decade so to speak. A good example around me:
2011 saw a Formula 311 with 454/trs go for 18K in decent shape. Now I'm seeing them listed for 25-42k... Someone will jump up and prove me wrong (I'm sure) but it seems like straight hull topgun pricing has risen a little in the last 18-24mon? So that's my take.
Lastly on the wakeboard boats... How many of us joke about not using our cabin? How well do 8 people fit in a topgun cockpit? How much truck do you need to tow one? Well check this out... A 1988 Supra Saltare is 23ft long, holds 12 people, single bbc, can be towed by a half ton, and still do 50+. Not too mention the stereo's pound and you can get one in really good shape for 10-12K. A more than 10yr old boat is tough to get a loan on, that example I just gave, makes great use out of $10,000 that guys my age work very hard for. Look at the job market for 4yr grads. Truth be told, it SUCKS. So that $10-15k required to get on a 15-20yr old 24ft outlaw is "precious" so to speak. Holy chit I just wrote a book. My bad
