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Trial Started for Boat Crash of 2008

Old 04-04-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by goatskin
Yes, it is a tragedy, but why was this case even brought?

Madame-Super-Prosecutrix and her overcharging, hyperbolic, and emotively theatric language aside ... not to mention contributory social issues, like drinking and boating by one or both parties ... I would think has a serious problem with long and well established Admiralty Law, Customs and Conventions.

One can argue speed, prudence, impairment, inattention, narrowness, non-functioning bow light, etc.etc. but from the pic of the Whaler, he was clearly the crossing vessel and is (with limited and narrow exceptions) responsible for avoiding a collision.

This is a political show trial, right?

Bob
Well said.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by goatskin
Yes, it is a tragedy, but why was this case even brought?

Madame-Super-Prosecutrix and her overcharging, hyperbolic, and emotively theatric language aside ... not to mention contributory social issues, like drinking and boating by one or both parties ... I would think has a serious problem with long and well established Admiralty Law, Customs and Conventions.

One can argue speed, prudence, impairment, inattention, narrowness, non-functioning bow light, etc.etc. but from the pic of the Whaler, he was clearly the crossing vessel and is (with limited and narrow exceptions) responsible for avoiding a collision.

This is a political show trial, right?

Bob
If I did not know the Judge and the Prosecutor I would agree with your assumption about the Prosecutor and case; however, I am a criminal defense attorney with cases in Ocean County Superior Court and have dealt with Ms. Bryce and had cases in front of Judge Hodgson. The OC Prosecutor has senior attorneys present cases to the Grand Jury for indictment, then the cases are assigned to Prosecutors. She is a good-fair attorney, who is doing her job assigned by her boss Joe Coronato (who I have never met).

My best guess is the defendant probably had a plea offer from the Prosecutors Office of anywhere from 7 to 15 years jail, but that is just my guess. I did not read where alcohol was an issue. I have had a DUI-Vehicular homicide case in Camden County where my client was in fact DUI, and killed the driver of another car, and the final sentence after months of negotiating was 7 years.

If was just an accident as presented by the defense the witness testimony-credibility will make this easy or hard the defendant as in any case. I will be in Ocean Count Superior next week I will try to find what I can.

It is a shame, accidents happen. I have no opinion as to the guilt or innocence of the defendant. But I wanted to shed some light on the Prosector and what may be the outcome if the defendant is convicted, but if he is convicted my guess is worthless, Judge Hodgson is a reasonable and fair Judge, time will tell.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:35 PM
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Hi Smarty and thanks for the local knowledge.

'tis well-known that a prosecutor can get an indictment of a ham sandwich, depending on how selectively they arrange their GJ presentments. (I figgered Mrs Post was 'connected' and that was why the kid was billed, anyhow.)

That aside, I have no knowlege of the facts of the case (and less knowledge of NJ law) nor how DeLeo(?) is possibly criminally culpable, but I was very offended by Ms Bryce's over-the-top, offensive, defamatory and unnecessary language. When I hear that kind of hysterical pap, it makes ME think how incredibly weak a case is.

My immediate thought, when I saw the pic of the Whaler, was this case should have never been brought - in the name of Judicial Economy, no clearly unwinnable case should be brought.

Unless there is some well-written local rule in Brick Twp inland waters, COLREGS ("Rules of the Road") pretty clearly:
- makes Mr Post the Budened vessel,
and
- is jus gentes, making a century, plus, of Admiralty Law cases and decisions on point, from 100+ countries ... relevant, which I doubt will make neither Ms Bryce nor her masters very happy (and quite offended).

Or, maybe they overreach, overcharge and overemote in Ocean County as a matter of course?

It is a tragedy, regardless, but I see more of a basis for putting Ms Bryce and Joe Coronato in stocks and pelting them with overripe vegetables rather than a rational basis for a criminal prosecution in the face of well-settled decisions of Burdened & Privileged vessels.

Dunno. Like I said, 'tis curious and seemingly a waste of time, resources, effort and tears.

Bob
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:25 PM
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Yes, it is a tragedy, but why was this case even brough

One can argue speed, prudence, impairment, inattention, narrowness, non-functioning bow light, etc.etc. but from the pic of the Whaler, he was clearly the crossing vessel and is (with limited and narrow exceptions) responsible for avoiding a collision. (quote)

"Rules of the road" how many really know what this means or what colregs are? Here in lies the problem. Not to get overly technical but when you are out at night, keep watch. Aboard ship we call it , keeping lookout in reduced visibility. Crossing a river late at night in a small vessel is certainly something that should bring a bit of caution.
And on the other hand, lights are not there to guide you to the dock. They are there to tell other vessels where you are and which way you are headed.They also tell length, in combination with white lights. If your lights are not functioning other vessels cannot discern you course, speed or type of vessel.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying boating at night but all these rules are in place to aid not to prosecute.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bwd
... "Rules of the road" how many really know what this means or what colregs are? Here in lies the problem. ...
There is nothing wrong with enjoying boating at night but all these rules are in place to aid not to prosecute.
You made two excellent points and thank you for clarifying:

- 'boaters' are, by and large, not mariners. That said, in every marina and chandlery I have been in, there is a some kind of simplified & illustrated "Rules of the Road" poster, and I'd think that just by osmosis, 'meeting' 'passing' 'overtaking' and 'crossing'would be ingrained.

- COLREGS are just received wisdom and common sense that are beautiful and useful in their logic & simplicity. The sea always wins, but you can delay when the roll is called if everybody knows by rote what are burdened and privileged vessels.

Last edited by goatskin; 04-04-2013 at 07:30 PM. Reason: spelling ... ugh
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by goatskin
Hi Smarty and thanks for the local knowledge.

'tis well-known that a prosecutor can get an indictment of a ham sandwich, depending on how selectively they arrange their GJ presentments. (I figgered Mrs Post was 'connected' and that was why the kid was billed, anyhow.)

That aside, I have no knowlege of the facts of the case (and less knowledge of NJ law) nor how DeLeo(?) is possibly criminally culpable, but I was very offended by Ms Bryce's over-the-top, offensive, defamatory and unnecessary language. When I hear that kind of hysterical pap, it makes ME think how incredibly weak a case is. In Jersey the state seldom drops charges, the state is always trying the case, or plea-bargaining/downgrading and fining ($$$$) the defendant.

My immediate thought, when I saw the pic of the Whaler, was this case should have never been brought - in the name of Judicial Economy, no clearly unwinnable case should be brought.

Unless there is some well-written local rule in Brick Twp inland waters, COLREGS ("Rules of the Road") pretty clearly:
- makes Mr Post the Budened vessel,
and
- is jus gentes, making a century, plus, of Admiralty Law cases and decisions on point, from 100+ countries ... relevant, which I doubt will make neither Ms Bryce nor her masters very happy (and quite offended).

Or, maybe they overreach, overcharge and overemote in Ocean County as a matter of course?

It is a tragedy, regardless, but I see more of a basis for putting Ms Bryce and Joe Coronato in stocks and pelting them with overripe vegetables rather than a rational basis for a criminal prosecution in the face of well-settled decisions of Burdened & Privileged vessels.

Dunno. Like I said, 'tis curious and seemingly a waste of time, resources, effort and tears.

Bob
I agree with you, the case should not have been tried, or at least they should try to downgrade to an acceptable charge, if the Whaler cut in front of the defendant, and the defendant was not in the wrong. I wonder what is really in the discovery that we do not know, that, as you know drives the Prosecutions theory and presentation, there must be witnesses on the Boston Whaler, or some other boat or dock that will paint a prosecutorial painting of wanton disregard, carelessness, and or negligence.

I see more and more cases indicted , and wanting to be tried that are absolute bull**** sometimes and the defendant is truly the victim.

Last edited by Smarty; 04-04-2013 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:18 PM
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Before and After Photos of the 27 ft Imperial Performance Boat .
Maybe someone here can convince me this boat was able to sustain so little damage after going through and up over the top of another boat . See Photos Click Here
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Smarty
... I wonder what is really in the discovery that we do not know, that, as you know drives the Prosecutions theory and presentation, there must be witnesses on the Boston Whaler, or some other boat or dock that will paint a prosecutorial painting of wanton disregard, carelessness, and or negligence. ...
The judge allowed defendant to state there have been civil suits (over prosecution objection) against both defendant and Mr Post's estate. I suspect he will, hence, allow discovery, stipulations and requests for production from those suits to be introduced if a nexus is fairly demonstrated.

Today was, apparently, showing scars and reliving fears, tears and trauma, which, while necessary, does not move a criminal puck much.

I read the original account in the paper, and apparently nobody on the boat saw/heard nothing ... happily idling back home, and WHAMMO!

If counsel knows his stuff, the light/non-light is a strawman, argument esp if the lack of a 120º Port red light cannot be convinvingly established.

Weak.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SHARKEY-IMAGES
Before and After Photos of the 27 ft Imperial Performance Boat .
Maybe someone here can convince me this boat was able to sustain so little damage after going through and up over the top of another boat .
Dunno. The Whaler was hit by a Vee, and at some speed, and there are a couple of strake marks.

Surely the NJ authorities have matching scrapings of glass and paint ... That #2 on the starboard quarter looks like an evidence marker, no?

If there was no damage to the port of the Whaler, and no damage to the Imperial's wheel, it was ramp-jumped v. T-Boned.

If prosecution does not have pretty strong science stating THAT was the boat that hit THIS boat, the judge will toss the whole schmere before defence opens their yap.

Bob
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:13 AM
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This type of thing makes me nervous. Last summer my wife and I were crossing the lake around 11pm after having dinner at a restaurant. It was a full moon so visibilty was pretty good. We were traveling about 40 mph when a guy starts waving a spot light around about 100 yards in front of me. It turns out they were in the middle of the lake in a 12' flat boat night fishing. They didn't have a single light on so I could not see them. Glad they could see our lights and hear us coming.

I love to run at night, but sure makes me nervous because I see so many boats run with out lights.


Not implying anyone envolved ran with no lights.
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