Marginmn

iTrader: (1)

When I first started doing Poker runs back in the early 2000's the format used to be slowest boats first followed by the faster classes and the big cats last. Because of the huge head start the slower classes would still arrive at the first card stop way ahead of the fastest boats. We never had a single incident in our Poker run until the format was switched around 2009 - for safety reasons. Now we've had two terrible wrecks at racing speeds here on Cumberland in a few short years with tragic consequences.

I realize that on paper it sounds safer for the fastest boats to not have to pick their way through a field of slower boats but in practice with the filed now inverted the start of many Poker runs have become flat out trophy dashes for bragging rights to the first card stop. It seems to me that this totally encourages the higher speeds on the first leg from which there is no walking away if something does go wrong. No one wants to be a kill-joy, including me, but nothing is a bigger kill-joy then having a tragedy at your event. We've now had two here on Cumberland.

I realize that these two great guys passed doing what they loved but we need to figure out how to run these events and have everyone continue to do what they love for another 30 years. Something needs to change before they authorities change it for us, if it's not already too late.

Was the slower boats first format better? What else can we change to prevent incidents?

Crude Intentions

iTrader: (1)

Poker runs shouldn't be treated like races. If you wanna race get on a race circuit. Seems to me most poker runs in the boating works have lost the true spirit of a poker run. Go to a motorcycle poker run and check that out. Always a charity cause and people cruising for the sake of cruising.

I'm all for speed and going fast but there is a time and place for everything and I believe boats are so much faster now that poker runs present a special challenge in a lot of traffic in a small area.

Interceptor

Big power + fast hull + ego = ridiculous speeds at poker runs. Eliminate one.

chewymalone

For me, the first part is easy to answer... slower boats first isn't better. It only makes the water worse for the fast guys and navigating around boats moving at less than half the speed you are running is no fun either. Add to that the fact that I'm one of the slower boats. I don't want someone going a buck fifty running up on me.

Maybe it wasn't the best choice of threads in which to bring it up, but someone nailed (at least part) of it in another thread today. Two of the major differences between PR's and races are a closed course vs. non-closed and safety regulations vs. virtually no regulations. It sounds as if both came into play in the most recent event... maneuvering around a non-participating boat and running at blistering speeds without the protection or presence of a canopy/capsule, restraints, etc.... I would throw in mandatory driver training as well. I'm not saying that lack of training caused the most recent accident because I have no idea. However, I think we could all agree that there are plenty of guys with fast boats in PR's that don't have a lot of seat time... especially running fast in rough water with lots of traffic.

So we get back to why we have PR's in the first place. I've been doing this since the early 2000's and started because they were charitable and fun. We ran 50 MPH back then and had a blast. There are some local/regional runs that have maintained that flavor, but it seems the larger runs have been taken over by the "big boys" with something to prove. Maybe organizing a "shootout" on a closed section of the lake in conjunction with more of these runs could lead to less competition when the assortment of boats sets sail in the PR. Do it on Friday afternoon, crown a champion, and reserve Saturday for good times and safe boating.

MnFastBoat

Totally agree with Marginmn, not so completly agree with ICU. And that is about the bike runs, They to, and do, have un safe riders at 'some'. Not getting into a pissing match, just saying if anyone puts on a gathering of like gear heads, the rubber or props or what ever get turning real fast when one wants to 'show' up another. Its called Egos!

I have been on smaller local runs where everything one starting at once. And the faster out of the gate you were the cleaner water you have.
I can see how the slower boats out front could be better suited as they would have somewhat cleaner "no washing machine wave" waters versus being at the back of the pack and giong thru everything in front.
The larger boats should be able to handle that 'wash', but it sounds like the latest tragedy was influenced by the wakes
So then the smaller boats in back get the wash machine yet have the power to 'catch' up. This is just an observation, mainly on my own part of expereince.
This whole things sucks, but like you said that at least they were doing what they wanted to do and not out on some street where someone else tooks thier lives!

So I guess in the end, I really do not have an idea on how to 'fix' the issues of crashes.
Well, unless the promotors set speed limits and or boundaries on how close you can run next to another boat.
But then you have to have staff to patrol, monitor and radar all the time. Then there is the whole How do you enforce it? You gonna speed out there and catch them? That is an even higher risk. Radio ahead at the card stops and disqualify them is all I can think of.

Best of luck, and RIP to those, and prayers out to the family and friends effected by this latest accident!

Sydwayz

iTrader: (1)

I hate to say this, but:

Same thread.
Different tragedy; different year.

These events themselves will be their own demise.
RIP to those who have passed. I do not mean to offend with this post.

DucBoy

Here is a thought - since speed is a function of time and distance, and you know the distance for each leg, simply announce a minimum time to complete a leg (i.e. if first leg is 30 miles and you think 120 should be the max speed, announce that anyone arriving in under 15 minutes from when the flag is dropped for that leg will be disqualified and bounced from the run). Similar to what the old open-road rally races used to do...you could even incorporate a new contest - have several classes, let each boater choose a class, have each boater sign in at each stop (show their number when passing a safety boat), and then award winners in each class that comes the closest to a perfect time without going over in any leg. That brings the first mate/navigator/whole boat into the contest and lets them be involved (instead of just the driver).

Sydwayz

iTrader: (1)

Good idea, but won't work.
There is no timing in Poker Runs. No one trips a light.
You can go balls out to the no wake buoys, and then stop and wait for your "time" to catch up.

bulletbob

How about no blast off or staggered start. Just card stops manned from a start time to a finish time. Then everyone meets up that evening to compare hands. We had great success with that on our lake this year. I'm truly sorry for the loss of the two gentlemen as I knew neither personally.

Cat & Mice

First let me say condolences to the Family of Brad and Jeff. I only met Brad for a short time at Loto this year and he seemed like a very passionate and great guy. RIP

A format change could help but also proper safety equipment requirements for higher speed groups.

One format change could be to not have a organized "start" they leave when they leave and can go to any of the card stops first. That being said I am a huge fan of the organized start. Its a big part of what I like about the Poker Runs. Sitting there waiting with all the fast boats and taking off together is a real thrill.

I have always been surprised that more people or any people for that matter don't wear helmets and proper life vest when traveling these speeds. Its rare that you even see people in proper lifeline vest but I have never seen someone in a poker run with a helmet, and not sure why? I am assuming that neck and head injuries are a big deal when crashing at speeds over 100mph. The right neck support, life jacket, and helmet would for sure help. I think its more of a social issue then cost issue. I think guys have a hard time using proper equipment unless everyone is doing it or its required, nobody wants to be seen as a pu$$y. clearly everyone that can afford a boat that goes over 100mph can afford the right safety gear.

I have personally gotten crap about wearing my lifeline instead of a regular life vest or none at all. I ignored that and wore my vest anyway but pretty sure I would not be the only guy wearing a helmet in a boat with 3-4 other guys not wearing one, I would never live that down. But the reality is if I was in a high speed accident and was the only one with a helmet and proper life vest then I am sure the others would not be giving me **** from the hospital. The real question is why are guys that want to use proper safety gear made fun of? I would feel way more safe in a boat going over 100mph with the right gear. Mostly because I have already had so many close calls that I figure its a matter of time before I am in a accident. I want enjoy the thrill of the speed and the sport but I want to have the best chance of not getting seriously hurt if something goes wrong, which eventually it will.


Change comes from frustration and clearly we are all frustrated (understatement) with these horrible accidents. Hopefully thru this experience we can make some changes to improve the sport and the safety of the sport.

MP