Boating Industry Receives Another Black Eye- Buyer Beware!!
06-19-2014, 10:39 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Boating Industry Receives Another Black Eye- Buyer Beware!!
I recently had a very frustrating & less than desirable experience w/ a long time major production boat manufacturer. I'd like your opinion as to whether my expectations have been realistic or not and I welcome any input as to how you might have handled the matter differently.
CHAIN of EVENTS
This past April I contacted a new boat dealer who represents a major boat manufacturer thru the Request Information messaging option in a BoatTrader ad.
My initial inquiry read I'm interested in this boat, will you consider taking a high performance boat on trade? The response was yes & some e-mail correspondence ensued including me asking for some interior pics & the dealer asking for more information about my trade both of which took place. Within a week or so the dealer I originally contacted handed me off to the boat manufacturers South US & South America Retail Rep. The explanation I was given was that b/c I don't have a dealer in my state or neighboring state & I've contacted a dealer whose territory I'm also not a part of the dealer must turn the lead over to the Retail Rep. The original dealer is no longer in the picture but will receive a referral fee. No big deal I just had to start over again, explain my interest in the boat I found on the BoatTrader & my willingness to trade for said boat. Much to my surprise I was told that I would receive a much better deal by dealing direct & thru the factory as opposed to trying to purchase an inventory boat. Didn't make sense to me b/c I would think moving existing inventory trumps ordering boats but I'm fine with it if it yields me the "much better deal" I was told it will.
Over the next month (May) I had the opportunity to meet the South US Rep right here in NC as he was here for an in water show at a local marina. This also provided me w/ an opportunity to participate in a demo ride of a boat that had recently been delivered locally & was spec'd much like the boat I wanted to order. I spent several hrs w/ the Rep over 2 days learning more about the boat, the options & how the trade works. I also asked very specific questions about how the trade transaction would work. What was explained to me was that The Factory absorbs the trade then makes that trade available to any of it's dealers that express an interest in it & believe they have a market for it. This was a first for me b/c the BMW factory certainly doesn't absorb trades to help dealers sell new cars it's up to the dealer to be able to absorb a trade. Ultimately non of that matters to me, I just want to buy a new boat & trade my current boat. The US Rep establishes a trade allowance & discloses it to me via e-mail, w/ the only contingency being a survey. I also received 4 separate quotes for differently equipped / optioned models ALL of which document the same trade allowance that was disclosed to me previously. I also confirm in writing that the new boat includes delivery to ME & that the trade is relocated at the Factories expense. A month into the process the transaction seems to be moving extremely slow & I'm skeptical. I specifically inquire as to where my boat might be headed b/c I provided the US Rep w/ a buyer lead, someone who is in the area of the dealer I first contacted & has an existing relationship w/ that same dealer. The response I received on May 22nd from the US Rep was "Once we have the results (survey) we can formally accept the trade & upon acceptance we will take care of all the shipping & logistics. We are not sure where your boat will go yet" At that point I made it clear that I'm ready to move forward, I want to order a new boat NOW b/c w/ a 8 week build I'm going to be taking delivery in August at best. On June 3rd I instructed the US Rep to initiate the survey & that if my paying for it up front would help expedite this I'm more than willing to do so, just deduct from the new boat trade differential. I reached out to the place that my trade currently resides, let them know I had struck a deal & that I would need their assistance making my boat available for a survey. I also put both parties in touch w/ each other. Later that day I received an e-mail from the US Rep that read "Got it, on delivery now but will schedule" and another e-mail stating " OK things are in the works, I'll update you tomorrow morning"
Time to break it out!!!!!!!!!
On June 4th at 8:20pm I receive an e-mail from the US Rep that's stated "The dealer that we had resourced to help take your trade today caused a delay. We had your boat sold to them which allowed us to move forward pending a survey but upon confirmation yesterday that we are moving forward they are now trying to renegotiate w/ us. We are now shopping your trade to our other partners & hope to resolve this quickly BUT UNTIL WE HAVE ANOTHER PARTNER LOCKED IN WE CAN'T MOVE. I wouldn't even want you to pay for the survey until this is confirmed." It goes on to explain that he's spoke at length w/ the original dealer I contacted & that the dealer will be in touch w/ the buyer & keep me posted while the US Rep is out of the country.
The highlights of my immediate response were- I can't express my disappointment in this e-mail b/c I specifically asked how the trade worked, at NO TIME was I told that the Factory must have a buyer or seriously interested party nor were there any contingencies beyond a survey that I knew my boat would pass w/ flying colors. I also thought this should have been handled via a phone conversation, not an after hours e-mail & that if I didn't hear from someone I'd be contacting the new boat manufacturer CEO who I met at the Miami Boat Show. I received a 2nd e-mail that same evening when I specifically suggested he call to which the US Rep stated 'We are facilitating the trade on this but in the structure of getting this deal to the bone for you, we reached out to our network & utilized our partners to make the numbers as advantageous as possible for you. We can certainly do a deal, but we (I) want to get you the best deal possible"
Excuse me Mr. US Rep, we already had a deal, it was MSRP less 30% + MY TRADE. The factory offers 20% off MSRP to anyone right on their website so IMO this is NOT THE BEST DEAL POSSIBLE & FAR FROM THE BONE AS I KNOW 40% OFF MSRP PRICING EXISTS
As you may have already guessed silence ensued so I requested a conference call w/ the President of the Boat Manufacturer & suggested all parties be on the call so as to avoid the he said she said. The President accepted my request but stated just he & the CFO would be on the call. In the interim I contacted the buyer lead I fed the US Rep only to find out he in fact was the buyer for my trade, that he was & had alsways been dealing w/ the new boat dealer I contacted from the BoatTrader originally (you know the one that's no longer involved) & that yes at the last minute he lowered his offer at the last minute. The US Sales Rep had instructed the buyer lead to fly up to see & seatrial my boat as well as have his own survey conducted. I'm not sure how they planned to make all that happen w/o me knowing on a boat they didn't accept or own yet.
Ultimately the President & CFO gave me an hour of their time to share my less than desirable experience for which I am grateful & answered all my questions. They also stated that the US Rep is NOT an Employee but an outside contractor, that it sounded as if there might have been some miscommunication (I corrected him by stating DELIBERATE OMMISSIONS) and that they were sorry. As a consolation they said they would still sell me a new boat at 30% off 2014 MSRP (they are now building 2015's @ a 2% increase) and take my trade for $15,000 less than the trade allowance that had previously been extended to me on 4 separate occasions in writing. I was floored & asked why I was to take it on the chin for misrepresentations that occurred within their own camp regardless of whether the US Rep was an employee or selected representative. I suggested that they honor the original trade allowance, sell me a boat at their true cost & that if they felt that their was still a trade differential to seek those funds from the US Rep who misrepresented the entire transaction from day 1. Unfortunately they did not agree, I've wasted nearly 2 mos of my time & I'm less than pleased w/ the way the President & CFO stood behind their people all of which I have in writing.
The performance boating industry is full of many stories like mine & some much worse. It has 2 black eyes w/ very little healing over the years b/c as we forgive or forget one occurrence another replaces it.
The fact that a major manufacturer, family owned & operated business has engaged in such unfair & deceptive trade practices only places a further strain on an industry that has been struggling to recover as it is. As best I can tell they have more $300k new boat orders than they can handle at the moment.
I apologize for my lengthy dissertation but I didn't want to come across as another one of those sore sports who didn't get his way or only tells one side of the story. I hope that my less than desirable experiences will educate others to ask more questions & or get as much in writing as possible so as not to have invested & wasted the amount of time I have w/ a group that I was under the impression was recognized as being a reputable boat manufacturer of 50+ yrs. In the end I was wrong.
Buyer Beware!!
CHAIN of EVENTS
This past April I contacted a new boat dealer who represents a major boat manufacturer thru the Request Information messaging option in a BoatTrader ad.
My initial inquiry read I'm interested in this boat, will you consider taking a high performance boat on trade? The response was yes & some e-mail correspondence ensued including me asking for some interior pics & the dealer asking for more information about my trade both of which took place. Within a week or so the dealer I originally contacted handed me off to the boat manufacturers South US & South America Retail Rep. The explanation I was given was that b/c I don't have a dealer in my state or neighboring state & I've contacted a dealer whose territory I'm also not a part of the dealer must turn the lead over to the Retail Rep. The original dealer is no longer in the picture but will receive a referral fee. No big deal I just had to start over again, explain my interest in the boat I found on the BoatTrader & my willingness to trade for said boat. Much to my surprise I was told that I would receive a much better deal by dealing direct & thru the factory as opposed to trying to purchase an inventory boat. Didn't make sense to me b/c I would think moving existing inventory trumps ordering boats but I'm fine with it if it yields me the "much better deal" I was told it will.
Over the next month (May) I had the opportunity to meet the South US Rep right here in NC as he was here for an in water show at a local marina. This also provided me w/ an opportunity to participate in a demo ride of a boat that had recently been delivered locally & was spec'd much like the boat I wanted to order. I spent several hrs w/ the Rep over 2 days learning more about the boat, the options & how the trade works. I also asked very specific questions about how the trade transaction would work. What was explained to me was that The Factory absorbs the trade then makes that trade available to any of it's dealers that express an interest in it & believe they have a market for it. This was a first for me b/c the BMW factory certainly doesn't absorb trades to help dealers sell new cars it's up to the dealer to be able to absorb a trade. Ultimately non of that matters to me, I just want to buy a new boat & trade my current boat. The US Rep establishes a trade allowance & discloses it to me via e-mail, w/ the only contingency being a survey. I also received 4 separate quotes for differently equipped / optioned models ALL of which document the same trade allowance that was disclosed to me previously. I also confirm in writing that the new boat includes delivery to ME & that the trade is relocated at the Factories expense. A month into the process the transaction seems to be moving extremely slow & I'm skeptical. I specifically inquire as to where my boat might be headed b/c I provided the US Rep w/ a buyer lead, someone who is in the area of the dealer I first contacted & has an existing relationship w/ that same dealer. The response I received on May 22nd from the US Rep was "Once we have the results (survey) we can formally accept the trade & upon acceptance we will take care of all the shipping & logistics. We are not sure where your boat will go yet" At that point I made it clear that I'm ready to move forward, I want to order a new boat NOW b/c w/ a 8 week build I'm going to be taking delivery in August at best. On June 3rd I instructed the US Rep to initiate the survey & that if my paying for it up front would help expedite this I'm more than willing to do so, just deduct from the new boat trade differential. I reached out to the place that my trade currently resides, let them know I had struck a deal & that I would need their assistance making my boat available for a survey. I also put both parties in touch w/ each other. Later that day I received an e-mail from the US Rep that read "Got it, on delivery now but will schedule" and another e-mail stating " OK things are in the works, I'll update you tomorrow morning"
Time to break it out!!!!!!!!!On June 4th at 8:20pm I receive an e-mail from the US Rep that's stated "The dealer that we had resourced to help take your trade today caused a delay. We had your boat sold to them which allowed us to move forward pending a survey but upon confirmation yesterday that we are moving forward they are now trying to renegotiate w/ us. We are now shopping your trade to our other partners & hope to resolve this quickly BUT UNTIL WE HAVE ANOTHER PARTNER LOCKED IN WE CAN'T MOVE. I wouldn't even want you to pay for the survey until this is confirmed." It goes on to explain that he's spoke at length w/ the original dealer I contacted & that the dealer will be in touch w/ the buyer & keep me posted while the US Rep is out of the country.
The highlights of my immediate response were- I can't express my disappointment in this e-mail b/c I specifically asked how the trade worked, at NO TIME was I told that the Factory must have a buyer or seriously interested party nor were there any contingencies beyond a survey that I knew my boat would pass w/ flying colors. I also thought this should have been handled via a phone conversation, not an after hours e-mail & that if I didn't hear from someone I'd be contacting the new boat manufacturer CEO who I met at the Miami Boat Show. I received a 2nd e-mail that same evening when I specifically suggested he call to which the US Rep stated 'We are facilitating the trade on this but in the structure of getting this deal to the bone for you, we reached out to our network & utilized our partners to make the numbers as advantageous as possible for you. We can certainly do a deal, but we (I) want to get you the best deal possible"
Excuse me Mr. US Rep, we already had a deal, it was MSRP less 30% + MY TRADE. The factory offers 20% off MSRP to anyone right on their website so IMO this is NOT THE BEST DEAL POSSIBLE & FAR FROM THE BONE AS I KNOW 40% OFF MSRP PRICING EXISTS
As you may have already guessed silence ensued so I requested a conference call w/ the President of the Boat Manufacturer & suggested all parties be on the call so as to avoid the he said she said. The President accepted my request but stated just he & the CFO would be on the call. In the interim I contacted the buyer lead I fed the US Rep only to find out he in fact was the buyer for my trade, that he was & had alsways been dealing w/ the new boat dealer I contacted from the BoatTrader originally (you know the one that's no longer involved) & that yes at the last minute he lowered his offer at the last minute. The US Sales Rep had instructed the buyer lead to fly up to see & seatrial my boat as well as have his own survey conducted. I'm not sure how they planned to make all that happen w/o me knowing on a boat they didn't accept or own yet.
Ultimately the President & CFO gave me an hour of their time to share my less than desirable experience for which I am grateful & answered all my questions. They also stated that the US Rep is NOT an Employee but an outside contractor, that it sounded as if there might have been some miscommunication (I corrected him by stating DELIBERATE OMMISSIONS) and that they were sorry. As a consolation they said they would still sell me a new boat at 30% off 2014 MSRP (they are now building 2015's @ a 2% increase) and take my trade for $15,000 less than the trade allowance that had previously been extended to me on 4 separate occasions in writing. I was floored & asked why I was to take it on the chin for misrepresentations that occurred within their own camp regardless of whether the US Rep was an employee or selected representative. I suggested that they honor the original trade allowance, sell me a boat at their true cost & that if they felt that their was still a trade differential to seek those funds from the US Rep who misrepresented the entire transaction from day 1. Unfortunately they did not agree, I've wasted nearly 2 mos of my time & I'm less than pleased w/ the way the President & CFO stood behind their people all of which I have in writing.
The performance boating industry is full of many stories like mine & some much worse. It has 2 black eyes w/ very little healing over the years b/c as we forgive or forget one occurrence another replaces it.
The fact that a major manufacturer, family owned & operated business has engaged in such unfair & deceptive trade practices only places a further strain on an industry that has been struggling to recover as it is. As best I can tell they have more $300k new boat orders than they can handle at the moment.
I apologize for my lengthy dissertation but I didn't want to come across as another one of those sore sports who didn't get his way or only tells one side of the story. I hope that my less than desirable experiences will educate others to ask more questions & or get as much in writing as possible so as not to have invested & wasted the amount of time I have w/ a group that I was under the impression was recognized as being a reputable boat manufacturer of 50+ yrs. In the end I was wrong.
Buyer Beware!!
Last edited by NASCAT; 06-19-2014 at 10:59 AM.
Platinum Member
06-19-2014, 11:07 AM
#4
Registered
Sorry for your problems, but I grew up boating and around small yachts. If I had a dollar for every story like this I would be rich. The marine business just brings out the worst in people for some reason.
Run that skater and tell those guys to get bent.
Run that skater and tell those guys to get bent.
06-19-2014, 11:11 AM
#5
Registered
Funny, in early 2008 before things went "boom" you could live in LOTO, go to Kentucky and order a new 350 SS and trade an F-4 and the factory was not involved in the deal on bit (with the exception of building the new boat). The local LOTO dealer performed all the warranty work with no complaints.
06-19-2014, 11:14 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
In an attempt to keep this thread above the table & on task I specifically didn't disclose the boat manufacturer, the name of the original dealer I contacted nor the US Rep. In my opinion everyone that chooses to read the thread can gain something from it w/o the direct attack.
If someone said they experienced identity theft by using their credit card to make online purchases then the lesson to be learned is be careful about making online purchases w/ your credit card. I understand that more info is better BUT it also can be damaging. Instead I'm trying to arm you w/ knowledge.
MSRP on the new boat was approx $320k
If someone said they experienced identity theft by using their credit card to make online purchases then the lesson to be learned is be careful about making online purchases w/ your credit card. I understand that more info is better BUT it also can be damaging. Instead I'm trying to arm you w/ knowledge.
MSRP on the new boat was approx $320k
06-19-2014, 12:06 PM
#7
Registered
Its a Shame that so called "Reputable" Dealers can be such Shysters. they were probably each trying to squeeze you for a little more....
Last edited by fastdonzi; 06-19-2014 at 12:14 PM.
