leaky

Thanks again guys - one thing to point out though (which I did state but admit is unusual and easy to miss) - this is no going to have an outdrive, it is a straight inboard, ie the engine bolted to something like a ZF 63A gear and an 8 ft 1.75 inch driveshaft connected to a ~22 inch prop is the whole drivetrain.

The trouble with Volvo is they specifically state they no longer support straight inboard installations with a gas engine. Why I've got no idea, seems kinda stupid simple to support that, but my *guess* is something they changed in the computer "needs" to see a drive there and/or the cooling system now needs the impeller in the drive to operate properly.. If anyone knows the answer there it's interesting for inquiring minds but I looked into this way back and it's a Volvo thing that began when they went to the smaller block.

Ilmor is interesting, been looking at them all along - same as Indmar that has some neat stuff, however I know I can keep my boat at a marina that's got a Merc computer to pull the codes and similarly could hack a Volvo, or even with a diesel the mechanics are used to traveling to you, but likely very few boats with an Ilmor them comparatively even to an 8.2 HO I believe..

Is an Ilmor computer accessed via standard tools, like an automotive type reader? Just assuming I had no warranty issues, I've owned boats for awhile w/ modern engines and can manage 100% of service on my own, if my auto code readers worked (or if one practical to buy did) it might be maintainable if the parts were not outrageously expensive and/or hard to get.. But any warranty issue would likely mean hauling a 10.5ft wide boat inland, blocking it up on stands at a dealer etc... etc.. I've got dealers around when I check the web, not sure how much they really do with these engines (maybe lots maybe very little) but none of them are the coastal saltwater boat sort that would be close, or who would likely send a tech to the boat.

Jon

leaky

What do you consider the positive sides to the CAT engine?

leaky

I got another idea today. Another option that would at least make the whole thing less expensive would be to buy the 380 HP model, then if I decide I want the HP or dislike the cat or whatever, for $800 I can take the whipple tune and make my 380 into a 430..

The 380 is at least $4000 cheaper and from what I've been researching may not have anything to speak of different in the hardware other than possibly a restrictor plate on the intake.

Also I might be able to get a 380 that does not require DTS, which ends up being a very expensive option since it adds lots of cost to the controls and also to the transmission (since then you need an electric shift)...

So a 380 with cable controls is $4000+ less on base engine, about $1000 less on transmission options (electric shift & trolling valve), $2000+ less in dual station controls - and maybe $800 more in a tune if I want to make it into a 430 or lose the cat/sensor. That is like $6000 cheaper at a minimum.. But even a 380 with DTS is still much less, and I'm not sure that 50 HP is even going to be very noticable in this application - the only reason I'd buy the 430 HP model is just "to be safe".

Jon

BUP

iTrader: (9)

Cat engines produce a lot less emissions around in the air and water when boating, plus for the drivers and passengers getting a lot less emission related exposure from the station wagon effect and while behind the boat using water toys..

Better warranty on a lot of items that emission related including spark plugs - the warranty is 3 years or 480 hoiurs which ever comes first.

Cats produce less noise thru the exhaust so a from of a muffler effect.

Cats with the O2 sensor monitoring along with with the epa mandations basically made the marine oems clean up their chitty tunes to make a more efficient cleaner running engine

Actually a few engines picked up a tad of hp or did not lose any because of the O2 monitoring. If I recall correctly a few picked up a 4 to 7 hp gain with cat / O2 sensors and using the newer ECM's / PCM's calibrations

The marine ecm s and efi set ups are not as far gapped as the auto industry. they use to be about 15 to 18 years behind the times now currently they have gain a lot of ground and getting more closer to the current EFI technology in the whole market place.

One example alone was 2 years ago marine engines started using wideband O2 sensor monitoring as before that is all O2 sensors used was narrow band. All states wide mandated O2 sensors started for model year 2010. -- CA started in model year 2008. Indmar / with Mailbu started its engine programs in 2006 for the wakeboard crowd behind the boat less emissions and marketed the heck out of that end of it to promote more sales..

leaky

Thanks BUP - that's great information. I always suspected that in the process of adding cats, sensors, and emissions controls that it should make an engine more powerful or more efficient (depending how you look at it).. Seems like the simplest thing to do if you want to reduce emissions is reduce the amount of fuel you are burning for the HP produced.

Obviously sometimes they create more new problems .. But I will say although when modern things break they might be a little trickier to fix, things like my set of '06 Opti's (1000 hours on them now, very few problems) or new vehicles seem to rarely ever break compared to the older stuff.

Does anyone have an opinion on DTS? Is it fairly reliable? Does it shift reasonably fast like a cable or is there a noticable delay?

My buddy who is the mercruiser guy really poo-poo'd electric controls, again not having seen lots of problems with them but based on the problems they potentially create.. He feels they will be unreliable. I'm not sure I'm worried about that but I am worried about the speed of shifting (the way I use the boat there are some critical situations where I go forward to reverse to forward again quickly, which is a basic part of maneuvering a single engine inboard). I *really like* the idea of getting all the friction and cable creep out of the system and making rigging cleaning without cables.

Thanks,

Jon