# of hours out of HP500EFI's before they need rebuilds?
11-22-2002, 10:11 AM
#21
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Dean's motor is carbed, so I believe that it will have the valve spring problem. The correct replacement is the HP500efi spring. I also know that he has those nice long primary headers, so reversion won't be much of an issue. Reversion is the killer of those springs, but it's still worth the time to check them.
Got the motor all figured out. The flywheel was off 180* causing a major inballance. Hopefully the crank and bearings are going to be OK. Still havn't resolved the oil temps, but the season is over, so we'll see what we get next year.
Got the motor all figured out. The flywheel was off 180* causing a major inballance. Hopefully the crank and bearings are going to be OK. Still havn't resolved the oil temps, but the season is over, so we'll see what we get next year.
11-22-2002, 11:38 AM
#22
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YOU ARE RIGHT THE 500 IS HARDER ON SPRINGS BUT THE E F I STILL HAVE A PROBLEM IF YOU DON'T WANT TO CHECK THEM THATS YOUR CHOICE
HEY CORD QUESTION FOR YOU HOW DOES REVERSION HURT THE VALE SPRING ? IF YOU HAVE EXHAUST REVERSION GETTING IN THE VALVE COVER ^%$%#$^ HAVE YOU GOT A BAD PROBLEM
JUST WONDERING
ROB YOUR EFI'S ARE REALLY 510'S AND BE CAREFUL YOU CAN'T BE SURE OF COMPRESSION ,PM ME I'LL FILL YOU IN
89 IS FINE FOR MOST AS LONG AS KNOCK SENSORS WORK ECT.TO CONTROL TIMING
MY TWO CENTS WORTH HOPE IT HELPS
HEY CORD QUESTION FOR YOU HOW DOES REVERSION HURT THE VALE SPRING ? IF YOU HAVE EXHAUST REVERSION GETTING IN THE VALVE COVER ^%$%#$^ HAVE YOU GOT A BAD PROBLEM
JUST WONDERING
ROB YOUR EFI'S ARE REALLY 510'S AND BE CAREFUL YOU CAN'T BE SURE OF COMPRESSION ,PM ME I'LL FILL YOU IN
89 IS FINE FOR MOST AS LONG AS KNOCK SENSORS WORK ECT.TO CONTROL TIMING
MY TWO CENTS WORTH HOPE IT HELPS
11-22-2002, 12:34 PM
#23
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I believe the reversion would put moisture in the oil. Because of the surface area of the thin valve covers and the remoteness of the upper valve train, moisture tends to collect under the covers. This moisture causes the springs to rust which then leads to their breakage. Reversion was pronounced on engines with the gill manifolds and a short riser. That's proably one of the reasons that Merc went to the CMI header. The service fix is to eliminate the reversion, raise the idle to 800rpm (?) and replace the valve springs.
11-22-2002, 01:45 PM
#24
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Originally posted by Cord
I believe the reversion would put moisture in the oil. Because of the surface area of the thin valve covers and the remoteness of the upper valve train, moisture tends to collect under the covers. This moisture causes the springs to rust which then leads to their breakage. Reversion was pronounced on engines with the gill manifolds and a short riser. That's proably one of the reasons that Merc went to the CMI header. The service fix is to eliminate the reversion, raise the idle to 800rpm (?) and replace the valve springs.
I believe the reversion would put moisture in the oil. Because of the surface area of the thin valve covers and the remoteness of the upper valve train, moisture tends to collect under the covers. This moisture causes the springs to rust which then leads to their breakage. Reversion was pronounced on engines with the gill manifolds and a short riser. That's proably one of the reasons that Merc went to the CMI header. The service fix is to eliminate the reversion, raise the idle to 800rpm (?) and replace the valve springs.
MOST OF WHAT I'VE SEEN IS WEAK SPRINGS DUE TO POOR MATERIAL ,
HAVE A GOOD DAY
11-22-2002, 09:40 PM
#25
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Hi Dean,
Sabrina is running fine. We had her out late this afternoon. The Ocean was phenomenal! The winds were 20 MPH out of the WNW so there were just 2-3 foot swells, far enough apart to make it a blast!
The engines are essentially 500 EFI's with Whipples. Chief built these in May, the only difference between them and the 500 EFI's is #1 The Whipples, and #2 the heads are Merlins, 310 cc.
After all of the prop testing I finally settled on P-5 29" Hydromotives with 1.36 gears on XR's. These are about 2 MPH slower than the 34 labbed Bravos (which are now the spares).
Top end with 1/2 fuel (160 gallons) and 7 people is 94.8 (this afternoon) 78 degrees, low humidity.
The strong suit with these 5 blades is the cruise speed. 3000 RPM is 55.9 MPH and 4000 RPM is 76 MPH. Again that's with 7 people and 160 gallons of fuel. We're averaging about 1 MPG.
You mentioned College and Kids. Lord do I remember fretting over paying for that! My daughter is a freshman now at FAU. We purchased Series E bonds when she was very young and they worked out a bit better than the Florida pre-paid program. That, and the Bright Futures program (funded by the Florida lottery) have been a real blessing.
Take care Dean.
Steve
Sabrina is running fine. We had her out late this afternoon. The Ocean was phenomenal! The winds were 20 MPH out of the WNW so there were just 2-3 foot swells, far enough apart to make it a blast!
The engines are essentially 500 EFI's with Whipples. Chief built these in May, the only difference between them and the 500 EFI's is #1 The Whipples, and #2 the heads are Merlins, 310 cc.
After all of the prop testing I finally settled on P-5 29" Hydromotives with 1.36 gears on XR's. These are about 2 MPH slower than the 34 labbed Bravos (which are now the spares).
Top end with 1/2 fuel (160 gallons) and 7 people is 94.8 (this afternoon) 78 degrees, low humidity.
The strong suit with these 5 blades is the cruise speed. 3000 RPM is 55.9 MPH and 4000 RPM is 76 MPH. Again that's with 7 people and 160 gallons of fuel. We're averaging about 1 MPG.
You mentioned College and Kids. Lord do I remember fretting over paying for that! My daughter is a freshman now at FAU. We purchased Series E bonds when she was very young and they worked out a bit better than the Florida pre-paid program. That, and the Bright Futures program (funded by the Florida lottery) have been a real blessing.
Take care Dean.
Steve
11-25-2002, 08:38 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveDavid
[B]Hi Dean,
"The engines are essentially 500 EFI's with Whipples. Chief built these in May, the only difference between them and the 500 EFI's is #1 The Whipples, and #2 the heads are Merlins, 310 cc.
RPM is 55.9 MPH and 4000 RPM is 76 MPH. Again that's with 7 people and 160 gallons of fuel. We're averaging about 1 MPG."
Steve
Wild Horses here. Did you have your power dyno'ed? What are your estimates with the head modifications.
Thanks
Trevor
[B]Hi Dean,
"The engines are essentially 500 EFI's with Whipples. Chief built these in May, the only difference between them and the 500 EFI's is #1 The Whipples, and #2 the heads are Merlins, 310 cc.
RPM is 55.9 MPH and 4000 RPM is 76 MPH. Again that's with 7 people and 160 gallons of fuel. We're averaging about 1 MPG."
Steve
Wild Horses here. Did you have your power dyno'ed? What are your estimates with the head modifications.
Thanks
Trevor
11-25-2002, 08:56 AM
#27
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Steve,
Sounds like Sabrina is running GREAT! Those are some really nice #'s, especially your cruise #'s!
John Cosker @ Marine Performance always talks very highly of Tommy @ Chief! My wife loves your boat, (I Showed her pics from Powerboat test), especially the triple bolster set-up and the cabin lay out!
I think my oldest will probobly qualify for "Bright Futures" program, straight A student, who is in the "Gifted" class. There are a couple of guys I work with here @ LM, whose childern are going to UCF/UF or FSU on Bright Futures, and they said it was a big help. I like the idea of just Lump summing both of their tution and local fees, and just being done with it!
So.... the new boat is still item #1 on my wish list, for this year anyway!
Happy Holidays,
Dean
Sounds like Sabrina is running GREAT! Those are some really nice #'s, especially your cruise #'s!
John Cosker @ Marine Performance always talks very highly of Tommy @ Chief! My wife loves your boat, (I Showed her pics from Powerboat test), especially the triple bolster set-up and the cabin lay out!
I think my oldest will probobly qualify for "Bright Futures" program, straight A student, who is in the "Gifted" class. There are a couple of guys I work with here @ LM, whose childern are going to UCF/UF or FSU on Bright Futures, and they said it was a big help. I like the idea of just Lump summing both of their tution and local fees, and just being done with it!
So.... the new boat is still item #1 on my wish list, for this year anyway!Happy Holidays,
Dean
11-25-2002, 02:19 PM
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Hi Trevor,
Yes we dynoed all three engines at Chief. The $500 per engine is pretty reasonable insurance that everything is fine and the HP/TQ are what we expect. Without empirical information everything becomes an assumption and comparisons for prop, gears etc. are guesses at best. After 1 hour dyno time at various RPM the oil is changed, everything re torqued and they are good to go. These engines were within 10 HP of each, MAX was 709 HP and max Torque was 749 lbs at 3700 RPM.
Inlet duct temp was 130 while in the boat air inlet temp is app. 110. Dyno water temp was 98-105 +/- while actual running water temp is sea water (our area mid 70's to mid 80's. With those corrections and using a statistical model for fuel and air consumption the HP #'s grow about 9%.
Interestingly when you remove the air horn and filter HP jumped 10 HP. Removing just the filter element had no impact. Dustin is working on a reshaped air horn that should alleviate the restriction. BTW, we tried 4 different ECM's while on the Dyno for general discovery purposes. We could increase the HP with 2 of them but risk detonation. The final calibrations are conservative to moderate. 5300 RPM max, 700 RPM idle. No loading up and virtually no transom soot, even after 4 hours of running non stop at between 3000 RPM and WOT.
If you're ever in the South Florida area give me a call and we'll take her for a spin.
Dean: Quite a heart filling feeling when your children are doing well and frankly in my case, doing WAY better than I ever did in school
Take care,
Steve
Yes we dynoed all three engines at Chief. The $500 per engine is pretty reasonable insurance that everything is fine and the HP/TQ are what we expect. Without empirical information everything becomes an assumption and comparisons for prop, gears etc. are guesses at best. After 1 hour dyno time at various RPM the oil is changed, everything re torqued and they are good to go. These engines were within 10 HP of each, MAX was 709 HP and max Torque was 749 lbs at 3700 RPM.
Inlet duct temp was 130 while in the boat air inlet temp is app. 110. Dyno water temp was 98-105 +/- while actual running water temp is sea water (our area mid 70's to mid 80's. With those corrections and using a statistical model for fuel and air consumption the HP #'s grow about 9%.
Interestingly when you remove the air horn and filter HP jumped 10 HP. Removing just the filter element had no impact. Dustin is working on a reshaped air horn that should alleviate the restriction. BTW, we tried 4 different ECM's while on the Dyno for general discovery purposes. We could increase the HP with 2 of them but risk detonation. The final calibrations are conservative to moderate. 5300 RPM max, 700 RPM idle. No loading up and virtually no transom soot, even after 4 hours of running non stop at between 3000 RPM and WOT.
If you're ever in the South Florida area give me a call and we'll take her for a spin.
Dean: Quite a heart filling feeling when your children are doing well and frankly in my case, doing WAY better than I ever did in school
Take care,
Steve
11-25-2002, 02:27 PM
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Trevor, I'm sorry I forgot to answer your questions about cylinder heads. The 500 EFI stock GM cylinder heads actually produced a tad more HP (between 4 and 7) than the Merlins. However the TQ numbers are higher with the Merlins. (+12) In a marine environment I prefer TQ over HP.
Take care. Trevor, is Lake Simcoe the lake that Barrie Ontario is located on? If so we raced our unlimited Hydro there in 1998. Really pretty area hope we get to race there again in 2003. There is some discussion of returning. Hard to beat the congeniality of the folks in that region.
Steve
Take care. Trevor, is Lake Simcoe the lake that Barrie Ontario is located on? If so we raced our unlimited Hydro there in 1998. Really pretty area hope we get to race there again in 2003. There is some discussion of returning. Hard to beat the congeniality of the folks in that region.
Steve
