Step Bottom History
12-10-2002, 07:52 PM
#134
Rough Seas Lie Ahead
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Tom it's refreshing to hear someone, especially one in such a different kind of boat, get into the discussion on the goods, bads, and uglies of the predominant hull designs meaning both V's and steps.
Too often folks fall in line and follow blindly just for the self-assurance that what they bought is the big cheese. Just look at some car owners sing the praises almost verbatum of what the manufacturers put out in ads and pay a hefty price in the their beliefs. To the man each owner honestly believes the hype mainly because they forked the money over to purchase it and want badly for it all to be true. After all, that's what advertising is all about isn't it....
Now this is not to say the newer boats aren't running faster and stronger but there's a lot of reasons that are impacting those results. At least that's my objective opinion and I own a partially stepped boat, and I've said this time and again that it had absolutely nothing to do with my purchase....
Anyway, I'm glad to hear your enthusiasm for learning and entertaining other perspectives. Otherwise you'd have to go back to reading about "OT...How big is your truck?" or "OT...what kind of toaster should I buy my wife" or ....well you get the point...
Too often folks fall in line and follow blindly just for the self-assurance that what they bought is the big cheese. Just look at some car owners sing the praises almost verbatum of what the manufacturers put out in ads and pay a hefty price in the their beliefs. To the man each owner honestly believes the hype mainly because they forked the money over to purchase it and want badly for it all to be true. After all, that's what advertising is all about isn't it....
Now this is not to say the newer boats aren't running faster and stronger but there's a lot of reasons that are impacting those results. At least that's my objective opinion and I own a partially stepped boat, and I've said this time and again that it had absolutely nothing to do with my purchase....
Anyway, I'm glad to hear your enthusiasm for learning and entertaining other perspectives. Otherwise you'd have to go back to reading about "OT...How big is your truck?" or "OT...what kind of toaster should I buy my wife" or ....well you get the point...
12-10-2002, 09:57 PM
#136
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Ship Wrecked it is quite simple there are very few real Boat builders out there only Boat Molders (our lower caste) also the ones I see building new boats the appearance given is they did not do or forgot the math work! Otherwise it would not look like such a monstrosity.
Some achieve speed with a ride akin to a plank of wood, Big deal!! The Math again!!
A well designed boat is dry, has a very soft ride (big points here the whole program) possess handling attributes and like it can turn! And finally Speed which is the easiest to achieve but few can even do that!
Until a few figure how to use even a Radio Shack calculator and understand the basics things will stay static!
Some achieve speed with a ride akin to a plank of wood, Big deal!! The Math again!!
A well designed boat is dry, has a very soft ride (big points here the whole program) possess handling attributes and like it can turn! And finally Speed which is the easiest to achieve but few can even do that!
Until a few figure how to use even a Radio Shack calculator and understand the basics things will stay static!
12-10-2002, 11:51 PM
#137
Charter Member #1093
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Harry Schoell memories:
We take you back to 1968. I'm 14 at the time. Harry's brother was working at Magnum on 188th. street. Harry had recently designed the 19 feet Seabird model known as a Stiletto. Most of the racing Stilettos had V drives. At the same time we all were developing a provisional inboard class running at the Marine Stadium, mainly at OPC races, called inboard pleasure craft. These were Champs, S-18's, Anacapris, Donzi's converted checkmates, etc. Harry, Gene the Harmon Brothers (who built Bilt Rite seats that went in all the Donzi's then, magnums etc back then) Jimmy Preston and Pete VanKirk raced the Stilettos.
At the time Harry's shop was in Hallandale about 100 feet from where Crane Cams was located (Harvey Crane was running Crane then and while cranky, very generous to us). I was racing a Donzi 18' that year and met Harry. The Chisholm brothers owned Donzi at the time. GM was Roy Farmer and manufacturing mgr was Marvis Charmichael. They (Donzi) let me come down on weekends and mess with my boat. At the same time Holman Moody had a service facility on the Miami River that Keith Hazel ran. Keith was a heck of a guy and let me come down on weekends as well. He and Bill Sundman would help develop the 289 we were running at the time. On the Donzi, we tried a keel pad, notch transom, changed the X dimension, etc. No matter what we did, above 60 MPH mine was a chine walking SOB. So were Harry's Stilettos, only they could stay upright at 75 MPH while I was getting dunked about every other race at 60.
Harry and Gene Schoel were racing together. As I recall they were running a 426 Hemi and the boat was named Beep Beep.
After getting clobbered by Harry and a couple of other guys, OK, almost everybody, Dale Dull who owned the SK 441 Drambuie, along with the late Ed Bradfield of Profile flat bottom fame (or infamy would better define his life and death, Tanqueray etc. ) hired me to drive a new Checkmate they purpose built for the class. This checkmate was actually a pop off that Tuppin of Palm beach built. We got it derigged and made the conversion with a 351 Holman Moody completely built up. Boat was red metalflake and ran as "Rattler". Now we were winning, not just the B class (up to 351 CI but the C and D guys which went all the way to 500 CI)
As our class grew during 69 and 70 we had class meetings at Harry's shop. Here's where it got fun for a young lad. After the meetings, Harry would pull out his old time projector and play what were then known as "stag" films, today they'd be soft porn, heck really just R rated stuff. So now just think, we talked about and worked on our race boats, (Harry would help anyone, anytime) they drank beer, and we watched "girlie" moves. As a kid I just didn't think life got much better!
Here's where history repeats itself.....Then along comes an Offshore guy, but new to closed course racing. His name was Bill Sirois, yes that Bill Sirois. He has Mike Navaloni build an ultra light North American S-18 with one of Doug Janischs Black Widow 350 CI motors. Bill uses the Merc #3 speedmaster drives and right out of the box is running upper 80's and decimates the entire field. 2 years later the class is dead. Our meetings began not to be free wheeling discussions of boat design, changes, HP gains etc. but rather how to restrict the leader. Rules and more rules and then rules for the rules. Bill could get stuff from Carl Kiekhaefer that none of the rest of us could. Then again I was getting stuff from Holman Moody that was pretty tough to get as well.
Harry made it clear to all that innovation was key to this class growing, not bickering about holding anyone back. But he also said that everyone should have access to what everyone else was running.
Harry then went on to design a number of well known hulls, and never, in spite of his genuis, ever had much money that I'm aware of. 34 years have passed since then, but I'll never forget his generosity and inspiring me to go faster, and safer.
Here's where one questions family lineage. Harry Schoell and T2x look very much alike, I mean very much. I don't know if Harry cares for Cats (I could be wrong) and of course T2x, well you know........
Could then, T2x be the evil Cat reincarnation of Harry?
To this day I think Harry Schoel knows more about hydrodynamics and V hulls than most any person on the planet. That pulse drive ad you see on the OSO site, that's another of Harry's designs.
Sorry for the long read, I have fond memories of some really fine people in my racing life, who outside of our sport, to the unknowing are just everyday people going to work, or in some cases gone to Heaven. But these are people who in one way or another made possible the kind of boats you and I enjoy today.
Tip o the hat to Wynne, Schoell, Linder, Luhrs, Brownie, Allison, Ramos, Hledin etc.
We take you back to 1968. I'm 14 at the time. Harry's brother was working at Magnum on 188th. street. Harry had recently designed the 19 feet Seabird model known as a Stiletto. Most of the racing Stilettos had V drives. At the same time we all were developing a provisional inboard class running at the Marine Stadium, mainly at OPC races, called inboard pleasure craft. These were Champs, S-18's, Anacapris, Donzi's converted checkmates, etc. Harry, Gene the Harmon Brothers (who built Bilt Rite seats that went in all the Donzi's then, magnums etc back then) Jimmy Preston and Pete VanKirk raced the Stilettos.
At the time Harry's shop was in Hallandale about 100 feet from where Crane Cams was located (Harvey Crane was running Crane then and while cranky, very generous to us). I was racing a Donzi 18' that year and met Harry. The Chisholm brothers owned Donzi at the time. GM was Roy Farmer and manufacturing mgr was Marvis Charmichael. They (Donzi) let me come down on weekends and mess with my boat. At the same time Holman Moody had a service facility on the Miami River that Keith Hazel ran. Keith was a heck of a guy and let me come down on weekends as well. He and Bill Sundman would help develop the 289 we were running at the time. On the Donzi, we tried a keel pad, notch transom, changed the X dimension, etc. No matter what we did, above 60 MPH mine was a chine walking SOB. So were Harry's Stilettos, only they could stay upright at 75 MPH while I was getting dunked about every other race at 60.
Harry and Gene Schoel were racing together. As I recall they were running a 426 Hemi and the boat was named Beep Beep.
After getting clobbered by Harry and a couple of other guys, OK, almost everybody, Dale Dull who owned the SK 441 Drambuie, along with the late Ed Bradfield of Profile flat bottom fame (or infamy would better define his life and death, Tanqueray etc. ) hired me to drive a new Checkmate they purpose built for the class. This checkmate was actually a pop off that Tuppin of Palm beach built. We got it derigged and made the conversion with a 351 Holman Moody completely built up. Boat was red metalflake and ran as "Rattler". Now we were winning, not just the B class (up to 351 CI but the C and D guys which went all the way to 500 CI)
As our class grew during 69 and 70 we had class meetings at Harry's shop. Here's where it got fun for a young lad. After the meetings, Harry would pull out his old time projector and play what were then known as "stag" films, today they'd be soft porn, heck really just R rated stuff. So now just think, we talked about and worked on our race boats, (Harry would help anyone, anytime) they drank beer, and we watched "girlie" moves. As a kid I just didn't think life got much better!
Here's where history repeats itself.....Then along comes an Offshore guy, but new to closed course racing. His name was Bill Sirois, yes that Bill Sirois. He has Mike Navaloni build an ultra light North American S-18 with one of Doug Janischs Black Widow 350 CI motors. Bill uses the Merc #3 speedmaster drives and right out of the box is running upper 80's and decimates the entire field. 2 years later the class is dead. Our meetings began not to be free wheeling discussions of boat design, changes, HP gains etc. but rather how to restrict the leader. Rules and more rules and then rules for the rules. Bill could get stuff from Carl Kiekhaefer that none of the rest of us could. Then again I was getting stuff from Holman Moody that was pretty tough to get as well.
Harry made it clear to all that innovation was key to this class growing, not bickering about holding anyone back. But he also said that everyone should have access to what everyone else was running.
Harry then went on to design a number of well known hulls, and never, in spite of his genuis, ever had much money that I'm aware of. 34 years have passed since then, but I'll never forget his generosity and inspiring me to go faster, and safer.
Here's where one questions family lineage. Harry Schoell and T2x look very much alike, I mean very much. I don't know if Harry cares for Cats (I could be wrong) and of course T2x, well you know........
Could then, T2x be the evil Cat reincarnation of Harry?
To this day I think Harry Schoel knows more about hydrodynamics and V hulls than most any person on the planet. That pulse drive ad you see on the OSO site, that's another of Harry's designs.
Sorry for the long read, I have fond memories of some really fine people in my racing life, who outside of our sport, to the unknowing are just everyday people going to work, or in some cases gone to Heaven. But these are people who in one way or another made possible the kind of boats you and I enjoy today.
Tip o the hat to Wynne, Schoell, Linder, Luhrs, Brownie, Allison, Ramos, Hledin etc.
12-11-2002, 01:08 AM
#139
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More on Harry one of his old disciples Mr. Jim Gardner (a dam fine boat builder) and myself were talking, this a long time ago, seems Harry was getting complaints about the fumes from his neighbors ,Anyway he makes a chemical “masking” for the resin and now has his shop smelling like a Bread Bakery.
This was long before anyone ever dreamed of it.
With all that Harry Schoell has done he should have be a right up there with Bill Gates
This was long before anyone ever dreamed of it.
With all that Harry Schoell has done he should have be a right up there with Bill Gates
