Will we go to war with Iraq?
01-27-2003, 10:38 PM
#31
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I work in a government facility with military (Seals, etc.), and don't think for a moment that they are not ready to give the Iraqi SOBs absolute HELL. Lots of minigun music on the river lately....
President Bush is carrying out a promise he made to the American public, and to the world, and bears a tremendous burden in the process. He didn't start the fight, but is damn well ready to finish it.
The cowards in this country that want to stick their heads in the sand should try to keep the images Sept. 11 in their minds. Our economy will survive, and we will prevail.
Bulldog AKA Ronnie
President Bush is carrying out a promise he made to the American public, and to the world, and bears a tremendous burden in the process. He didn't start the fight, but is damn well ready to finish it.
The cowards in this country that want to stick their heads in the sand should try to keep the images Sept. 11 in their minds. Our economy will survive, and we will prevail.
Bulldog AKA Ronnie
01-28-2003, 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by mcollinstn
EITHER/OR
Either Saddam Disarms
OR
We go to war.
Bush Sr. royally fked up by letting the whining UN hand-wringers shame him into leaving the job undone. You DONT fight a WAR and then leave the enemy intact. Diplomacy is a wonderful tool for heightened negotiations and second chances. WARS are not for second chances.
As far as the UN, the whining feys were never on the same wavelength going into this inspection ordeal. They were never prepared to sign their name to military action. They had far prefer to back away and wave their hands while we do the dirty work for them.
STEWARDSHIP of the economy? You gotta be kidding me ! ?
Here, Saber, my boat is sinking. Big hole in the hull. No patch. It;s all yours. Be a good steward. (Course these discussions have been proven to go nowhere good since you are thorougly convinced that GW singlehandedly managed to swing the dynamic momentum of the entire US economy to the bad in 2 and a half weeks).
North Korea? Diplomacy has not yet been proven to be ineffective. You always gotta "diplomacize" first. Gotta give it plenty of opportunity to offer a bettering situation. Only when diplomacy fails must war be considered. When diplomacy AND WAR both fail, and resumed diplomacy continues to fail, then WAR is the obvious solution.
Do I LIKE this? No.
Do I understand that it must/should take place? Of course.
War is expensive and I expect it to be far from a boost for our ailing economy. I'm truly sorry that some of Saber's government assist programs he is so fond of may suffer budgeting troubles. The poor illegal border-crossing Mexican unwed mothers may not be given their own 900 square foot house in which to raise her illegitimate streetgang-to-be family of eight.
And woe be unto the country if some business owner saves enough money in corporate taxes that he is allowed to weather the economic slump and continue to provide good American jobs making good quality American products to his 235 employees that would otherwise be standing in the soup lines that Saber is so happy to see the government provide.
I only hope that this time the US military is allowed to finish the job so we can move to the next chapter.
EITHER/OR
Either Saddam Disarms
OR
We go to war.
Bush Sr. royally fked up by letting the whining UN hand-wringers shame him into leaving the job undone. You DONT fight a WAR and then leave the enemy intact. Diplomacy is a wonderful tool for heightened negotiations and second chances. WARS are not for second chances.
As far as the UN, the whining feys were never on the same wavelength going into this inspection ordeal. They were never prepared to sign their name to military action. They had far prefer to back away and wave their hands while we do the dirty work for them.
STEWARDSHIP of the economy? You gotta be kidding me ! ?
Here, Saber, my boat is sinking. Big hole in the hull. No patch. It;s all yours. Be a good steward. (Course these discussions have been proven to go nowhere good since you are thorougly convinced that GW singlehandedly managed to swing the dynamic momentum of the entire US economy to the bad in 2 and a half weeks).
North Korea? Diplomacy has not yet been proven to be ineffective. You always gotta "diplomacize" first. Gotta give it plenty of opportunity to offer a bettering situation. Only when diplomacy fails must war be considered. When diplomacy AND WAR both fail, and resumed diplomacy continues to fail, then WAR is the obvious solution.
Do I LIKE this? No.
Do I understand that it must/should take place? Of course.
War is expensive and I expect it to be far from a boost for our ailing economy. I'm truly sorry that some of Saber's government assist programs he is so fond of may suffer budgeting troubles. The poor illegal border-crossing Mexican unwed mothers may not be given their own 900 square foot house in which to raise her illegitimate streetgang-to-be family of eight.
And woe be unto the country if some business owner saves enough money in corporate taxes that he is allowed to weather the economic slump and continue to provide good American jobs making good quality American products to his 235 employees that would otherwise be standing in the soup lines that Saber is so happy to see the government provide.
I only hope that this time the US military is allowed to finish the job so we can move to the next chapter.
I bet you are an engineer. Not only by this post but also your explanations of things mechanical and physics related. Nonetheless, your points are right on, well thought out and articulated. THANKS FOR FOR SHARING. I only wish more people were as enlightened to reality as yourself.
01-28-2003, 08:31 AM
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Saber might have a point.
Another Bush -- Another recession
Another Bush -- Another war with Iraq
What's up with that? Is this family a result of a cloning experiment?
Another Bush -- Another recession
Another Bush -- Another war with Iraq
What's up with that? Is this family a result of a cloning experiment?
01-28-2003, 08:38 AM
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Just remember.........over 60 years ago, there was another tyranical scumbag in the making that was hellbent on world domination.
Nobody paid him much attention, or thought of him as much of a threat. BOY WAS EVERYONE WRONG !!!!!!!!
Let's make sure we have learned from our past mistakes, misjudgements, and miscalculations.......
Nobody paid him much attention, or thought of him as much of a threat. BOY WAS EVERYONE WRONG !!!!!!!!
Let's make sure we have learned from our past mistakes, misjudgements, and miscalculations.......
01-28-2003, 09:03 AM
#36
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I find this interesting where was this outrage from the LEFT … (1998) when Slick and algore were looking for support for their puny Iraq response??
01-28-2003, 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Steve 1
....where was this outrage from the LEFT … (1998) when Slick and algore were looking for support for their puny Iraq response??
....where was this outrage from the LEFT … (1998) when Slick and algore were looking for support for their puny Iraq response??
They knew, just like everyone else, that any military action Willy took against Iraq, Sudan, etc. was to keep HIM off the front pages and the 6 o'clock news........
01-28-2003, 01:26 PM
#38
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Typically hate wading in on these threads as they tend to degenerate into one side of the political spectrum bashing the other side – which has nothing to do with Shane’s fair and good initial request! However, I love a debate on a worthy topic, so here’s my two cents.
Maybe the real question here is why? Why should we go to war – not will we! It’s my belief that the reason why is related to the age old principle that ties each generation to the next. The idea that as parents we strive to leave the world in better shape for our children, grandchildren, etc. That never ending pursuit of the improvement of the human condition.
The middle east doesn’t hate us because we support Israel. They hate us because we support democracy, freedom, justice. The Islamic world has very few democracies. Malaysia and Turkey are notable exceptions.
Risk Taker is right on with his analogy to Hitler. Terrorists evidently control large segments of Arab opinion the way the Nazis once controlled Germany. Similarities include their swagger and lies, their dispensing of hallucinogenic ideology to the very poor, and by murdering their opponents.
Make no mistake, dictators are not ideologists, they are enslavers! From Lenin to Stalin to Hitler to the ayatollahs to Saddam and bin Laden, totalitarianism has always been married to terrorism. But to assure that this evil does not keep re-emerging, decade after decade, we must not merely uproot terror but also plant the seeds of democracy! That’s the end game – that’s how we marginally improve the human condition so our children’s children inherit a better place.
There are any number of outcomes to the current Iraq situation. Many of these might temporarily solve the weapons-of-mass-destruction boogie man. But they would stop the more compelling reason for the U.S. going to war – the rapid emergence of democracy in the region. Liberty for the Iraqi people is not just a great moral cause or an economic necessity, for our children, it’s a great strategic goal!
So, Shane my friend, I guess I am not really answering your question, “whether or not we will go to war with Iraq?” I guess I am making the statement that I hope we do!
Maybe the real question here is why? Why should we go to war – not will we! It’s my belief that the reason why is related to the age old principle that ties each generation to the next. The idea that as parents we strive to leave the world in better shape for our children, grandchildren, etc. That never ending pursuit of the improvement of the human condition.
The middle east doesn’t hate us because we support Israel. They hate us because we support democracy, freedom, justice. The Islamic world has very few democracies. Malaysia and Turkey are notable exceptions.
Risk Taker is right on with his analogy to Hitler. Terrorists evidently control large segments of Arab opinion the way the Nazis once controlled Germany. Similarities include their swagger and lies, their dispensing of hallucinogenic ideology to the very poor, and by murdering their opponents.
Make no mistake, dictators are not ideologists, they are enslavers! From Lenin to Stalin to Hitler to the ayatollahs to Saddam and bin Laden, totalitarianism has always been married to terrorism. But to assure that this evil does not keep re-emerging, decade after decade, we must not merely uproot terror but also plant the seeds of democracy! That’s the end game – that’s how we marginally improve the human condition so our children’s children inherit a better place.
There are any number of outcomes to the current Iraq situation. Many of these might temporarily solve the weapons-of-mass-destruction boogie man. But they would stop the more compelling reason for the U.S. going to war – the rapid emergence of democracy in the region. Liberty for the Iraqi people is not just a great moral cause or an economic necessity, for our children, it’s a great strategic goal!
So, Shane my friend, I guess I am not really answering your question, “whether or not we will go to war with Iraq?” I guess I am making the statement that I hope we do!
Last edited by Uncle Toys; 01-28-2003 at 03:35 PM.
01-28-2003, 01:34 PM
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As always UT, your insightfulness and eloquence adds much to many discussions here on the board. Even if you cannot change your own drive oil.
Your points hit the nail on the head. I think if we take some of each of the comments mentioned here today and forwarded them to the White House speach writing team, they would have some great points to make tonight. Joe, your ability to draw upon your professional experiences around the globe have proven once again insightful and enlightening. The question of why, or do you think we should go to war and why, is much more pertinant after reading your post. Thanks for sharing.
Your points hit the nail on the head. I think if we take some of each of the comments mentioned here today and forwarded them to the White House speach writing team, they would have some great points to make tonight. Joe, your ability to draw upon your professional experiences around the globe have proven once again insightful and enlightening. The question of why, or do you think we should go to war and why, is much more pertinant after reading your post. Thanks for sharing.
01-28-2003, 03:32 PM
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I know I am very happy I am not President Bush. I would not want the responsibilty. It is something very few men are capable of. No President has left office unscathed. They are all battered and bashed by all sides. It is very easy for those on the outside to make judgement calls and decisions when we really don't have all the information, or will be held accountable for such decisions. With that said, I feel an offensive tactical plan would be much more effective in this extremely sensitive climate we are engaged in. Just my 02, but I feel war is eminent. No, I don't condone war, but I believe I will sleep better knowing we have a President who will comandeer the resources available to him, in turn, thwarting off a truly oppressive situation.
Last edited by Neverfastenuf; 01-29-2003 at 08:43 AM.
