View Poll Results: State Of The Union Address
Grand Slam!!!!
31
23.66%
Did a great job
67
51.15%
Didn't do anything for me
15
11.45%
Didn't watch/Don't care
18
13.74%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: State Of The Union Address
01-29-2003, 05:57 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
A few thoughts,
Sept. 11 changed everything. Until this country feels secure once again, no amount of incentives, tax cuts, or any plan will jump start our economy. To clear this world of terrorists and states that support terrorism will take the right approach. I think we've got the right guy with the right approach.
No matter what you think of presidents, past or present, this president is a straight talker. I look at his demeaner and confidence and believe that HE believes what he says. I don't know if he's going to lead us down the right path, but I gotta believe he thinks it is. What he has is his plans and policies, no circus around him to distract from his message. I believe what you see is what he is, and that is a good start.
Is just me. Does the passion he uses when defending our country and telling us and the world that we are still the greatest defender and provider of freedom in the world and we'll keep it that way make ya damn proud to be american.
Sept. 11 changed everything. Until this country feels secure once again, no amount of incentives, tax cuts, or any plan will jump start our economy. To clear this world of terrorists and states that support terrorism will take the right approach. I think we've got the right guy with the right approach.
No matter what you think of presidents, past or present, this president is a straight talker. I look at his demeaner and confidence and believe that HE believes what he says. I don't know if he's going to lead us down the right path, but I gotta believe he thinks it is. What he has is his plans and policies, no circus around him to distract from his message. I believe what you see is what he is, and that is a good start.
Is just me. Does the passion he uses when defending our country and telling us and the world that we are still the greatest defender and provider of freedom in the world and we'll keep it that way make ya damn proud to be american.
01-29-2003, 06:10 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think Bush did a great job last nigh. True he is not the public speaker that Clinton was but at then end of the day, I would much rather have a president that speaks from the heart than a slick used car salesman, which is what we had for the previous administration.
Bush has and is proving himself to be a much more formidable LEADER than anyone could have imagined...republicans included.
As for war with Iraq, has anyone taken a look at the comments from Clinton, Daschle, Kerry, etc in 1998 vs now?
Truly enlightening...and shows the current lot of democrats to be the partisan whores they are. This group will and has put their own political survival in front of this country.
Yes people, there is a reason they lost power...America is getting smarter.
Bush has and is proving himself to be a much more formidable LEADER than anyone could have imagined...republicans included.
As for war with Iraq, has anyone taken a look at the comments from Clinton, Daschle, Kerry, etc in 1998 vs now?
Truly enlightening...and shows the current lot of democrats to be the partisan whores they are. This group will and has put their own political survival in front of this country.
Yes people, there is a reason they lost power...America is getting smarter.
01-29-2003, 06:12 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bill Clinton:1998
What if Saddam Hussein "fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction."
"If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." "Some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal."
"Just consider the facts. Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave the lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM. In 1995, Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law, and chief organizer of Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more. Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities and weapon stocks. Previously, it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth."
"Now listen to this: What did it admit? It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability--notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And might I say, UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.
"Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door. And our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it."
"We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein."
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quote:
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Bill Clinton: 2002
"Saddam Hussein didn't kill 3,100 people on Sept. 11," he said. "Osama bin Laden did, and as far as we know he's still alive."
"I also believe we might do more good for American security in the short run at far less cost by beefing up our efforts in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere to flesh out the entire network."
Regarding Saddam's WMD's, Clinton said, "He has maximum incentive not to use this stuff. If we go, he has maximum incentive to use it because he knows he's going to lose."
........
Tom Daschel:1998
"Look, we have exhausted virtually our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so?' That's what they're saying. This is the key question. And the answer is we don't have another option. We have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily."
Daschel, Kerry, Graham, Patrick Leahy, Christopher Dodd, and Hagel--co-sponsored the broad 1998 Senate Resolution 71:
"Urges the President to take all necessary and appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs"
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quote:
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Tom Daschel:2002
"I really haven't made up my mind at all."
"Some of our questions were answered but there are a lot more out there that need to be addressed before we can make any conclusive decision on what needs to be done.
"Preemptive strikes are not something we do. And for us to depart from that practice and take this action requires I think very careful deliberation and that's what we're going to give it."
"There will be those who will support the President under any circumstances. There will be those who probably will never be satisfied that there is adequate cause for an invasion any time in the foreseeable future. There is a large number of people in the middle, and I'm one of them."
"Some of our questions were answered but there are a lot more out there that need to be addressed before we can make any conclusive decision on what needs to be done."
.........
John Kerry:1998
"If there is not unfettered, unrestricted, unlimited access per the U.N. resolution for inspections, and UNSCOM cannot in our judgment appropriately perform its functions, then we obviously reserve the rights to press that case internationally and to do what we need to do as a nation in order to be able to enforce those rights," Kerry said February 23, 1998. "Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kerry: 2002
"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act. But until we have properly laid the groundwork and proved to our fellow citizens and our allies that we really have no other choice, we are not yet at the moment of unilateral decision-making in going to war against Iraq."
(September 6, 2002 NYTimes Op Ed)
What if Saddam Hussein "fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction."
"If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." "Some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal."
"Just consider the facts. Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave the lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM. In 1995, Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law, and chief organizer of Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more. Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities and weapon stocks. Previously, it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth."
"Now listen to this: What did it admit? It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability--notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And might I say, UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.
"Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door. And our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it."
"We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Clinton: 2002
"Saddam Hussein didn't kill 3,100 people on Sept. 11," he said. "Osama bin Laden did, and as far as we know he's still alive."
"I also believe we might do more good for American security in the short run at far less cost by beefing up our efforts in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere to flesh out the entire network."
Regarding Saddam's WMD's, Clinton said, "He has maximum incentive not to use this stuff. If we go, he has maximum incentive to use it because he knows he's going to lose."
........
Tom Daschel:1998
"Look, we have exhausted virtually our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so?' That's what they're saying. This is the key question. And the answer is we don't have another option. We have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily."
Daschel, Kerry, Graham, Patrick Leahy, Christopher Dodd, and Hagel--co-sponsored the broad 1998 Senate Resolution 71:
"Urges the President to take all necessary and appropriate actions to respond to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Daschel:2002
"I really haven't made up my mind at all."
"Some of our questions were answered but there are a lot more out there that need to be addressed before we can make any conclusive decision on what needs to be done.
"Preemptive strikes are not something we do. And for us to depart from that practice and take this action requires I think very careful deliberation and that's what we're going to give it."
"There will be those who will support the President under any circumstances. There will be those who probably will never be satisfied that there is adequate cause for an invasion any time in the foreseeable future. There is a large number of people in the middle, and I'm one of them."
"Some of our questions were answered but there are a lot more out there that need to be addressed before we can make any conclusive decision on what needs to be done."
.........
John Kerry:1998
"If there is not unfettered, unrestricted, unlimited access per the U.N. resolution for inspections, and UNSCOM cannot in our judgment appropriately perform its functions, then we obviously reserve the rights to press that case internationally and to do what we need to do as a nation in order to be able to enforce those rights," Kerry said February 23, 1998. "Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kerry: 2002
"If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act. But until we have properly laid the groundwork and proved to our fellow citizens and our allies that we really have no other choice, we are not yet at the moment of unilateral decision-making in going to war against Iraq."
(September 6, 2002 NYTimes Op Ed)
01-29-2003, 06:17 PM
#44
Charter Member # 430
Charter Member
Wow, wish I had time to pull that kind of backup together. I with you mlitefan!
01-29-2003, 07:54 PM
#45
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
mr.velocity - if it makes you feel any better, the Sheriff's HumVee will turn out to be a confiscated vehicle tied to a crime or drug dealer. This is normal procedure. Most of these confiscated vehicles are offered for sale to the public at auctions, but sometimes the vehicles are offered to "special departments" as visible evidence to the public that "crime does not pay".
Here in TN, I've seen TransAms, Vettes, GMC Typhoons, and other "teen-popular" rides in Police Special Programs. A lot of the special programs involve teen education regarding drug use and drug dealers. The vehicles are brought to schools and specifically shown to the kids as an impact point.
As far as your cop cruising town in the HumVee, I'm not sure what program his vehicle is involved in, but I'd bet money that it came from the impound lot.
Puder - I understand the jist of what you are saying about the tax breaks. I don't know what creative structuring your Dad did with his experts, but it sounds like it worked well.
If this scenario you describe happened anytime in the last 5 years, I'd sure like to find out who he uses... The clamps have tightened in the last few (7 or 8) years and if the guy has THAT kind of creative legal tax restructuring, then I'd SERIOUSLY like to find out more about it. I pay guys too, and understand the tax code pretty well - but nobody has shown me any significant legal ways of shrugging off taxes...
With that said, you voted so you got a right to vent about the leadership. You voted for Nader, I voted for Bush (heck, I voted for Perot a few yrs back) - that's why this is America.
In Iraq, you vote for Saddam or you die (or they kill you and THEN count your vote as a vote for Saddam).
Here in TN, I've seen TransAms, Vettes, GMC Typhoons, and other "teen-popular" rides in Police Special Programs. A lot of the special programs involve teen education regarding drug use and drug dealers. The vehicles are brought to schools and specifically shown to the kids as an impact point.
As far as your cop cruising town in the HumVee, I'm not sure what program his vehicle is involved in, but I'd bet money that it came from the impound lot.
Puder - I understand the jist of what you are saying about the tax breaks. I don't know what creative structuring your Dad did with his experts, but it sounds like it worked well.
If this scenario you describe happened anytime in the last 5 years, I'd sure like to find out who he uses... The clamps have tightened in the last few (7 or 8) years and if the guy has THAT kind of creative legal tax restructuring, then I'd SERIOUSLY like to find out more about it. I pay guys too, and understand the tax code pretty well - but nobody has shown me any significant legal ways of shrugging off taxes...
With that said, you voted so you got a right to vent about the leadership. You voted for Nader, I voted for Bush (heck, I voted for Perot a few yrs back) - that's why this is America.
In Iraq, you vote for Saddam or you die (or they kill you and THEN count your vote as a vote for Saddam).
01-29-2003, 08:28 PM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
mlitefan great post
I remember all the dems making these remarks during the Clinton administration and also remember Clinton always promising to bring the terrorists to justice time and time again. I appreciate you finding some of these promises that the dems seem to forget.
After all the promises that the dems made it took President George W. Bush to have the balls to take the action to retaliate against the evils of this world. The UN is not the answer just like the League of Nations was not the answer. Back in the thirties the League of Nations failed to act when Japan went into Manchuria(sp) and again when Italy invaded Ethiopia and was also afraid to stop Hitler. If the UN won't act they will disappear the same as the League of Nations.
Puder-------I am so glad your cadidate did not get elected. If he had, that would have been the end of high performance power boating.
After all the promises that the dems made it took President George W. Bush to have the balls to take the action to retaliate against the evils of this world. The UN is not the answer just like the League of Nations was not the answer. Back in the thirties the League of Nations failed to act when Japan went into Manchuria(sp) and again when Italy invaded Ethiopia and was also afraid to stop Hitler. If the UN won't act they will disappear the same as the League of Nations.
Puder-------I am so glad your cadidate did not get elected. If he had, that would have been the end of high performance power boating.
01-29-2003, 09:02 PM
#47
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Re: G.W.BUSH
Originally posted by garshev
I don't know what you guys watched last night but it sure looked different to me. Lets see what has happened in the two years Bush has been in. The stock market drops almost 4000 points, gas prices are at their all time high,unemployment is skyrocketing,national deficit growing out of control, 90% of states are bleeding red ink, corporate scandal after corporate scandal,(lots of his close friends ENRON),now we should go to war (for a job his daddy didn't finish), give tax cuts to the top 1% equal to what the bottom 95%will get. Boy I can't wait for the next two years!!! All this from a guy who didn't even win the election.
I don't know what you guys watched last night but it sure looked different to me. Lets see what has happened in the two years Bush has been in. The stock market drops almost 4000 points, gas prices are at their all time high,unemployment is skyrocketing,national deficit growing out of control, 90% of states are bleeding red ink, corporate scandal after corporate scandal,(lots of his close friends ENRON),now we should go to war (for a job his daddy didn't finish), give tax cuts to the top 1% equal to what the bottom 95%will get. Boy I can't wait for the next two years!!! All this from a guy who didn't even win the election.
Stock market - was totally overvalued at 10k, 11k (thanks to all the now defunct dotcoms). This is a normal correction to bring the market back to reality.
Gas prices - Jeez. i remember back 3 or so years ago when prices around here were almost $2.00 per gallon, and the Slickmeister in all his grand wisdom, opened the national petroleum reserve (saved for extreme emergencies) to help prices for what......2 days????
Unemployment - Every Sunday my local paper has 20+ pages of help wanted ads..........
National deficit - you think the $200+ billion 9/11 has cost the federal government so far has anything to do with that....
State bleeding red ink - and this is the President's fault???? PLEASE. Don't the states have the responsibilty to run their own house......
Corporate scandals - these scumbags have been doing, and getting away with this sh*t for years. Do you think that maybe with all the liberal judges that the Slickmeister appointed, they knew they could get away with it??? Face it ....the Clinton years were a free for all in business, government, sex, etc. Yeah...corporate scandals are Bush's fault.....
War - first off, his 'daddy' didn't finish it, because the UN said don't do it. You Lib's wanted that then, and you want it now. We will not make the same mistake twice. Sometimes, we as the lone superpower...free and compassionate, must stand up for those that cannot...whether we are at risk or not. That is how this country was founded, and that is what we MUST do......
Tax cuts - you got that one backwards, my friend. The top 1% PAYS 85% of the TOTAL personal income tax in this country. And you know who the people are that make up that 1%? People making over $90,000. per year!!! I'm in the low end of that scale, and I don't feel rich....yet i see my 'contribution' to this country every week in my check, and know that it is my duty to do so.
I'm sorry you are so angry. Just give thanks that you are able to voice your opinion like you have above. Many miilions in this world would be killed for what you have said.
Just my $ .02
01-29-2003, 09:13 PM
#48
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RISKTAKER, that is a family of 4 making $90,000 yea you throw in good private schools and a average house 1600sqft and that is not a whole lot but yes we are the top 1%. And we need a tax cut!!!!!!!!
