APBA Bod Who's in charge?
05-19-2003, 05:52 PM
#101
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I have to dispute your "facts": it wasn't a secret. Allweiss and others knew about it from day one.
Again, if the Offshore crowd wants to blame anyone for not spreading the word about the proxies and the proposed bylaw changes.........look to your own leadership: apparently they did not think you needed to know about it.
The website was not a secret. It was announced in the very public internet power boat racing newsgroup. More than a few offshore racers and fans read it, including Allweiss and Zoly.
Again, if the Offshore crowd wants to blame anyone for not spreading the word about the proxies and the proposed bylaw changes.........look to your own leadership: apparently they did not think you needed to know about it.
The website was not a secret. It was announced in the very public internet power boat racing newsgroup. More than a few offshore racers and fans read it, including Allweiss and Zoly.
Last edited by Mark75H; 05-19-2003 at 06:42 PM.
05-19-2003, 07:58 PM
#102
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Originally posted by Mark75H
The website was not a secret. It was announced in the very public internet power boat racing newsgroup.
The website was not a secret. It was announced in the very public internet power boat racing newsgroup.
As I said nobody I talked with knew anything about this vote proior to Detroit.
05-19-2003, 08:10 PM
#103
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the requested link
To see the "secret" link to the proxy site, click on the "view complete thread" link on that page
To see the "secret" link to the proxy site, click on the "view complete thread" link on that page
Last edited by Mark75H; 05-19-2003 at 08:12 PM.
05-20-2003, 08:17 AM
#104
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Originally posted by Peconic
I expected as much. Or as little.
From where are you picking that quote?
Who mentioned such figures and numbers that need validating?
T2x, you are a troubled man. You see things that don't exist. You suspect conspiracies. You are obsessive. You repeat yourself.
And I will respectfully bow out of this senseless discussion.
I expected as much. Or as little.
From where are you picking that quote?
Who mentioned such figures and numbers that need validating?
T2x, you are a troubled man. You see things that don't exist. You suspect conspiracies. You are obsessive. You repeat yourself.
And I will respectfully bow out of this senseless discussion.
T2x
P.S. I'm bowing out of this thread as well....... The difference is...I mean it.
05-20-2003, 11:21 AM
#105
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First of all MA is still on the BOD of APBA. He was never removed from that office. Unless it has happened in the last few weeks.
Second The SeaTec Plan was a Plan only and never implemented, and had no real affect on offshore racing.
Third the proxy vote was publicly announced.
The proxy vote was a restoration of the bylaws. It in no way interfered with the APBA Offshore LLC. nor did it change any aspect of the contract. MA was free to pursue the Offshore deal under the terms of the contract. Nothing changed there.
As for the insurance MA was on the BOD of APBA that approved the insurance when the contract was let 3 years ago. He approved the premiums due each year as a member of the BOD. He signed a contract to secure his insurance through APBA and at the rates quoted. In 2003 the rates went up across the board 15% for all categories of APBA. All of them. At that time the LLC decided to secure their own insurance at a lower cost and break the terms of the contract with APBA.
As for some of the other accounting there is a dispute there as well. I'll leave that to an accountant. You can not dispute the LLC broke the contract.
The thing most are missing is this is not a offshore vs the outboarders. This has nothing to do with offshore racing and would not affect the offshore racers one bit. Until the contract was broken and now there is a disagreement between the LLC and the parent APBA.
The membership cost, sanction cost, insurance costs were all agreed to by the LLC.
Let the LLC go aboput their business and APBA go about theirs. Simple. If you want to race with the LLC then by all means do it. If you want to support SBI then go there and if APBA gets a deal together go there. What ever trips your trigger.
But please don't mistake any of this as a offshore vs the rest of the world. Keep in mind the LLC is a private company.
Second The SeaTec Plan was a Plan only and never implemented, and had no real affect on offshore racing.
Third the proxy vote was publicly announced.
The proxy vote was a restoration of the bylaws. It in no way interfered with the APBA Offshore LLC. nor did it change any aspect of the contract. MA was free to pursue the Offshore deal under the terms of the contract. Nothing changed there.
As for the insurance MA was on the BOD of APBA that approved the insurance when the contract was let 3 years ago. He approved the premiums due each year as a member of the BOD. He signed a contract to secure his insurance through APBA and at the rates quoted. In 2003 the rates went up across the board 15% for all categories of APBA. All of them. At that time the LLC decided to secure their own insurance at a lower cost and break the terms of the contract with APBA.
As for some of the other accounting there is a dispute there as well. I'll leave that to an accountant. You can not dispute the LLC broke the contract.
The thing most are missing is this is not a offshore vs the outboarders. This has nothing to do with offshore racing and would not affect the offshore racers one bit. Until the contract was broken and now there is a disagreement between the LLC and the parent APBA.
The membership cost, sanction cost, insurance costs were all agreed to by the LLC.
Let the LLC go aboput their business and APBA go about theirs. Simple. If you want to race with the LLC then by all means do it. If you want to support SBI then go there and if APBA gets a deal together go there. What ever trips your trigger.
But please don't mistake any of this as a offshore vs the rest of the world. Keep in mind the LLC is a private company.
05-20-2003, 01:08 PM
#106
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Originally posted by T2x
That is the charge....... If "most of us" know something the factual data should support the charge. Grin's examples, so far, have rebutted the charge of membership revenue abuse, but he has yet to make a case for the causes behind the insurance premium issue.... so that remains an open issue.... LLC may have a legitimate point...and if we could keep to that simple point, without the hysteria and non associated topics to the charge issued....the issue might very well be settled on its own merits.
T2x
That is the charge....... If "most of us" know something the factual data should support the charge. Grin's examples, so far, have rebutted the charge of membership revenue abuse, but he has yet to make a case for the causes behind the insurance premium issue.... so that remains an open issue.... LLC may have a legitimate point...and if we could keep to that simple point, without the hysteria and non associated topics to the charge issued....the issue might very well be settled on its own merits.
T2x
I have been trying to get inf. on the insurance issue.
Here are some points that I have found so far.
ABPA signed a 3yr contract with ASIS for a yearly lump sum for all categories. The finance commity then headed by Greg Jacobson did some major historical fact finding, which I understand Greg gets alot of the credit for his hard work, on past history of claims filed and data such as : How many participants will be each event? How many spectators at each event? The bigger the event the better the chance for a claim. Each year of the contract the finance commitee would, with the help of specific formula's for potential claims, would make a fee schedule based on past history of each category for each category sanction with different premiums paid for different races, such as Nationals, Worlds or Series events paying higher rates because they are higher profile races and as such would probably bring in more participants and spectators, hence more potential for claims.
It is my understanding that Greg understood these formulas very well and put in alot of hard work in making sure that everone paid their far share based on the risk of claims. It is also my understanding that in the insurance contract that if APBA claims reached a certain percentage increase that the rates would be adjusted under the contract.
As I said above the finance commitee set the rates, but before the rates could be implimented these rates were brought before the BOD to be accepted or changed. Because at the beginning of the year noone knows how many races there are actually going to be in each category in the comming year there is the possiblity of a surplus or a shortfall. If there was a surplus one year then it goes to cover any shortfalls from previous years or stays to cover future shortfalls. Also any surplus will show as income for tax purposes in that fiscal year.
This is my understanding of how the insurance payments were divided among the different categories. As everyone knows the insurance companies don't always have the insured's best interest in mind, they want to make a profit so when they make your premium its based on your past history, and statistical data of who and what is insured. It's based on perceived risk. Based on this you have to figure out how much coverage you want or can afford.
So in a nut shell: The finance commitee takes the entire premium amount due to the insurance carrier, whoever that is at the time,
and splits it up between the categories. These figures are then taken to the BOD and they are either pased or rejected. But the BOD has final say on the issue.
Grin
Grin & Smear It
05-20-2003, 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Mike A.
Grin,
While most of what you wrote has some historical accuracy, you left off a couple of key points: Offshore's risk management fees were set at a higher rate in an effort to help subsidize some of the other categories, including, in particular, Stock Outboard, NOT as a true and accurate measure of the various risk factors involved in these respective sports.
Indeed, Offshore rates were increased 62% for Divisional races and 34% for national races while Stock Outboard saw a decrese of 11% during that same time period.
Grin,
While most of what you wrote has some historical accuracy, you left off a couple of key points: Offshore's risk management fees were set at a higher rate in an effort to help subsidize some of the other categories, including, in particular, Stock Outboard, NOT as a true and accurate measure of the various risk factors involved in these respective sports.
Indeed, Offshore rates were increased 62% for Divisional races and 34% for national races while Stock Outboard saw a decrese of 11% during that same time period.
Which years exactly are in your time period?
Grin
