What's more Safe, V bottom or Cat??
08-05-2003, 10:34 PM
#13
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Here is Kevin Brown's 32 Skater running under the new name of Relentless..and yes, this photo was taken a few weeks ago in Atlantic City NJ.
The boat ran without canopies for years. They just added the canopies and 5 point harnesses prior to this race. Coincidence??????
The boat ran without canopies for years. They just added the canopies and 5 point harnesses prior to this race. Coincidence??????
08-05-2003, 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by mr_velocity
Non-step V is the safest. Then I would say toss up between step bottom Vs and Cats. I think you see a lot of cats going over cause they are running much much faster then the Vs on average. Although I have been over in a cat going just about a 100mph in calm water.
Non-step V is the safest. Then I would say toss up between step bottom Vs and Cats. I think you see a lot of cats going over cause they are running much much faster then the Vs on average. Although I have been over in a cat going just about a 100mph in calm water.
Not that you have bought into Steve's advertising campaign or anything
Did you ever think your argument about cats going over could be the same for step'd bottom V's
08-05-2003, 10:40 PM
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Ron Is that the same boat that was dark blue with orange srtipes and named Team Skater? That was the boat Kevin Brown crashed in Atlantic City. I watched them pull it out of the water and one canopie was missing. I think Ocean Outboard ran a sister boat that looked the same but was outboard powered.
08-06-2003, 07:26 AM
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This is a debate that has been going on since....well since forever!
Ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. It is all a matter of interpretation and personal philosophy. I have mine as do others. The biggest factors of all that have equal bearing whether running a cat or vee have already been mentioned but surely warrant repeating. Whether you are running a cat or a vee you should always learn the boat first at low speeds. Learn what it will do in as many different scenarios as possible. NEVER DRINK AND RUN YOUR BOAT! As tempting as it may be, never exceed the boats or your limitations. Granted unforseen circumstances rise in fractions of a second, but do your best to not run harder than conditions permit. If all systems are working properly and nothing breaks, many accidents can be prevented by the operator not exceeding his or her limitations. Each type of boat, vee or cat, stepped or non, will have tendencies to act differently in various water conditions.
Ask 100 people and get 100 different answers. It is all a matter of interpretation and personal philosophy. I have mine as do others. The biggest factors of all that have equal bearing whether running a cat or vee have already been mentioned but surely warrant repeating. Whether you are running a cat or a vee you should always learn the boat first at low speeds. Learn what it will do in as many different scenarios as possible. NEVER DRINK AND RUN YOUR BOAT! As tempting as it may be, never exceed the boats or your limitations. Granted unforseen circumstances rise in fractions of a second, but do your best to not run harder than conditions permit. If all systems are working properly and nothing breaks, many accidents can be prevented by the operator not exceeding his or her limitations. Each type of boat, vee or cat, stepped or non, will have tendencies to act differently in various water conditions.
08-06-2003, 08:27 AM
#17
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This board always proves the point that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
Let me try to unravel this mess.....................
1. Having built, raced and pleasure boated both for years............GOOD Cats are safer than GOOD Vees..... AT THE SAME SPEED!!!!!!! A cat at 90 is going to be more stable, predictable, and controllable than a vee....all things considered. There are of course crappy cat designs and crappy vee designs that may impact this but overall the fact remains. To equate stepped vees with cats is ludicrous.......
2. Canopies (mounted according to Lavin standards) are, indeed, life savers......when mounted correctly. Kevin Brown's canopy was not affixed using Lavin standards..... (developed later) and , unfortunately came off in a barrel roll....hitting him and causing fatal injuries. Canopies mounted according to Lavin standards require additional reinforcement creating deflection and protection for the 5 point harnessed driver. The driver is also afforded cockpit lighting (for sudden upside down conditions that create intense darkness when compared to daylight), Oxygen (either full time or portable), Capsule training (to avert the natural disorientation and confusion in a traumatic event), Special life vests ( To avoid excessive buoyancy in a tight cockpit) , etc, etc.........
"Canopies", of and by themselves, are like carburetors....they don't function alone, but rather, as part of an overall "system" with STRICT application requirements...and....... there are good canopies(generally the most costly) and bad canopies (generally "cheaper").
Since the safety topic is so vital..... I strongly suggest that you do your homework, read the Lavin guidelines and avoid making decisions based on snippets of information and mis-information from bar talk, websites or general B.S. sessions......................
T2x
Let me try to unravel this mess.....................
1. Having built, raced and pleasure boated both for years............GOOD Cats are safer than GOOD Vees..... AT THE SAME SPEED!!!!!!! A cat at 90 is going to be more stable, predictable, and controllable than a vee....all things considered. There are of course crappy cat designs and crappy vee designs that may impact this but overall the fact remains. To equate stepped vees with cats is ludicrous.......
2. Canopies (mounted according to Lavin standards) are, indeed, life savers......when mounted correctly. Kevin Brown's canopy was not affixed using Lavin standards..... (developed later) and , unfortunately came off in a barrel roll....hitting him and causing fatal injuries. Canopies mounted according to Lavin standards require additional reinforcement creating deflection and protection for the 5 point harnessed driver. The driver is also afforded cockpit lighting (for sudden upside down conditions that create intense darkness when compared to daylight), Oxygen (either full time or portable), Capsule training (to avert the natural disorientation and confusion in a traumatic event), Special life vests ( To avoid excessive buoyancy in a tight cockpit) , etc, etc.........
"Canopies", of and by themselves, are like carburetors....they don't function alone, but rather, as part of an overall "system" with STRICT application requirements...and....... there are good canopies(generally the most costly) and bad canopies (generally "cheaper").
Since the safety topic is so vital..... I strongly suggest that you do your homework, read the Lavin guidelines and avoid making decisions based on snippets of information and mis-information from bar talk, websites or general B.S. sessions......................
T2x
08-06-2003, 10:45 AM
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T2X My point is, a canopie boat for pleasure is no better then a non canopie boat due to the fact most people would not use a 5 point harness in a pleasure situation. So yes I agree with you. Even though I own a full canopie pleasure boat.
In a full race boat with all the proper gear there can be no question as it has been proven time and time again
In a full race boat with all the proper gear there can be no question as it has been proven time and time again
Last edited by mmwalters; 08-06-2003 at 10:49 AM.
08-06-2003, 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by mmwalters
Ron Is that the same boat that was dark blue with orange srtipes and named Team Skater? That was the boat Kevin Brown crashed in Atlantic City. I watched them pull it out of the water and one canopie was missing. I think Ocean Outboard ran a sister boat that looked the same but was outboard powered.
Ron Is that the same boat that was dark blue with orange srtipes and named Team Skater? That was the boat Kevin Brown crashed in Atlantic City. I watched them pull it out of the water and one canopie was missing. I think Ocean Outboard ran a sister boat that looked the same but was outboard powered.
Ocean Outboard (Tony Caligure) ran a white 32 Skater called....... Ocean Outboard.
T2x
