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  1. #1

    need some help Cig buddies

    I am getting closer to $$ that boat...pretty much have it nailed down to a 38' Formula because of $$ available and financing etc....a tech at Thunderbird said they measure the 38' boat the old way...without swim platform...wierd..but we measured my buddies 2002 38' and with platform it was over 41' he says if you look at boats out there that measure a "true" 38'3"...that with twin 525's speeds of around upper 70's is average...compared to the 42' Fountain which we measured there at the boatyard you figure 2 1/2' for the beak and 2 1/2 feet for the it's 42'-5'= 37'. That's why a Fountain seems more efficient he's all in just how much boat you have. So a 38'3" Formula is LOA 1.3 feet longer and heavier than a 42' Fountain. Add a beak and you can cut a thousand pounds they said...and the shallow platform is another thousand pounds in other words figure the 38'3" Formula to be a 42' boat if you compare it to boats with platforms and the Formula is a great deal at under 300k for this 525HP package...

    At any rate everybody says the 38'3" Formula is a wave crusher and very Cigarette like in manners....and a 38' Cig and Formula are equal in in frsh water can a Topgun with 525's top say 77mph?...that's what the Formula is spec'd at in fresh water and 82mph in salt water...

    ...I think the Cigs are a little faster? or are they about equal?

    I don't know why they don't include platform measurement in the 38'er but it's the way it's always been whereas the old 311 is really a new 35'er with the platform...said it had to do with marketing strategy...

    also called Fountain and sure enough the new 42'er is in design for early release next season...sounds like a tri step is what an insider said and the 42' (Which is really a true 37') will do 100mph with twin 525's...the boat that set the record had a practically flat last step...cut a corner at speed and the boat will cantilever so the 160mph is straight line period...even a small turn and the boat will rock out of control...who needs dragsters? The boat needs manners or it's not for me about you?

    What a bunch of marketing crap with all these different methods of measuring...

    more speed from Fountain becasue they are smaller/lighter layup = weaker construction...period......

  2. #2
    Registered SummerObsession's Avatar
    My Boats:
    2015 MTI 48
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Just my opinion, but if you re-read your post, you will see that you (as well as others) compare everything to Cigarette.
    There is a reason.
    While I think either a Fountain or a Formula are boats I would be proud to own, it really comes down to personal preference.
    That said, for me at least, I chose to buy the boat that everyone else compares their product to. The benchmark, so to speak.

  3. #3
    Registered dhlaw's Avatar
    My Boats:
    2001 Top Gun T/S, 2002 Gladiator
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    New Smyrna Beach, Florida
    A twin step Top Gun with 525's properly set up should run high 80's. You need to get a grip, Formula is no Cigarette even though it may look like one!! Take a ride with one of us guys and then make the decision. You are gonna get wrecked on resale also!!

  4. #4
    Registered stecz20's Avatar
    My Boats:
    I am Jersey's B!tch
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    San Francisco CA
    from reading your post you seem to know which boat you want, its seems like the price is holding you up. we all want to get the most bang for our buck, but if your comparing rides, dont think you really can compare...

  5. #5
    Gold Member Gold Member Rice Hauler's Avatar
    My Boats:
    2001 Cigarette Top Gun Lip Ship Edition
    Join Date
    Oct 2001

    Look in the Engine Room

    I concur with all the previous posts and would like to add a couple of cents.
    Honestly they don't call long and pointy boats Formulas, Fountains, Outerlimits or Baja's they all call 'em Cigarette's and there is a reason.
    But what your post seems to be about is size, weight and speed.
    I may be mistaken but I think that Formula measures all of it's boats Length Over all (LOA) with the Silent Thunder Swim Platform included. This has no bearing on the running surface just as Fountain's Beak and integrated swim platform has none either.
    So I would take a good look in the Engine Room of the Top Gun and the 383 Formula unless you have the chance to get the Tape Measure out.
    You'll find that the Formula loses space in front of the Engines, Between the seat bulkhead and the engine blocks. You may also notice that the sunpad is shorter. This is the way the boat measures 38 feet overall but running surface is actually 36 or so.
    Cigarette's only measure true wetted surface. Not Beaks, or Swim Platforms.
    That's the real difference.
    Also I have never encountered a more than 2 mph speed difference between salt and fresh water.
    A twin Step 38 Top Gun will easily out run a similar powered Formula in any water. They are not really a good comparison in my book the Formula just has too much stuff in it. Like a full Cabin that slows it down. The Formula is a different animal.
    The 38 Top Gun may seem similar in manners in a flat lake but it is a measureabley longer Boat with a true advantage in wetted surface to the Formula and it is also a better riding boat when things get rough because of that balance and power to weight ratio, working with that larger longer hull surface area.
    Size does matter when matched with weight and power.
    Just my .02cents
    Rice Hauler
    "Lovin' Life and Livin Large"..OffShore

  6. #6
    GLH is offline
    Platinum Member Platinum Member GLH's Avatar
    My Boats:
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Burlington, VT
    Well performance is covered above now;

    The Cherry on top is re-sale, everyone that called on my Cigarette said "I have a (insert name of any brand mentioned above) and I have always wanted a Cigarette" and something tells me that if I'd had any other brand of boats I would not of sold it for the money I wanted in December in Vermont.

  7. #7
    My Boats:
    boat less
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    good thread

  8. #8
    Banned cuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Deland, Florida
    Originally posted by SummerObsession
    Just my opinion, but if you re-read your post, you will see that you (as well as others) compare everything to Cigarette.
    There is a reason.
    I'm a Formula guy, but there is no denying that Cig is the gold standard to which all others are measured against. I'm not saying Cigs are the best, but you will certainly hear things like "as good as a Cig", "not as good as a Cig" or even "better than a Cig".

  9. #9
    Registered birdog's Avatar
    My Boats:
    Top Gun
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Batavia Oh.
    I looked at several Formulas before buying my Cig. All along knowing what i realy wanted ! I just had a hard time with the cost diff.....Now...Long after the $ are forgotten The quality & ride of the Cig are still here !
    Dont get me wrong..I love Formulas Always have, My first boat was a F-1, Fantastic little boat !!!

    BTW....Formula includes the swim platform in LOA.

  10. #10
    Registered Crazyhorse's Avatar
    My Boats:
    38 Cigarette flat-deck
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Holland MI
    I like my Cigarette. It's stable, runs out well even though it's an older non-step hull, and is very maintenance friendly because of the room around the components.

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