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  1. #171
    Registered dockrocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    I tend to agree with the sentiment that most if not all of these accidents are due to driver error. Unless there is a definite equipment failure, ie a drive breaks or the boat strikes a submerged object, something of that nature, then it seems fairly intuitive that the driver exceeded either the capability of the boat or his own skill level, or both. If not, he wouldn't have crashed.

    Now, that being said, I don't think you can make a blanket case for a stepped hull being inherently "unsafe" or less safe than a traditional V, because you cannot reduce hull design to something so simple. Seems I remember that way back when, Powerboat (LPGA's authoritative reference tome of choice) categorized the Four Winns U-17 (or was it U-19) as essentially an unsafe hull, and there was nary a step in sight. In fact, that hull was almost certainly a splash or modification of the very successful Donzi 16.

    It seems to me that the "stepped hulls are inherently unsafe" folks are really making an argument that stepped hulls are not as safe as they should be, which is a whole 'nother thing. Put it this way, a 41' Apache has a different set of capabilities than, say, a Donzi Sweet 16. Take the Apache out in 8 footers with a good driver and you'll likely come back with a grin; try the same thing in the Donzi and you'll likely not come back at all. Does this make the Donzi "less safe" than the Apache? They are both 24 degree deep V hulls, right?

    Do stepped hulls turn differently than a straight deep V? Obviously, the answer is yes. A Viper turns differently than my wife's Mercury Mountaineer, but that doesn't make the Mercury an inherently unsafe vehicle, as long as you stay within its capabilities. If we had incidents of stepped boats sinking at the dock, I might buy the argument, but it seems to me to be a bit of a red herring. Specifically, if the Cig Gladiator is an unsafe design, one would expect to see all or most of them crashing or spinning. This does not seem to be case, unless there is some information that has not been posted here (which I doubt).

    Obviously, we don't have the statistics, but I'm willing to bet that if we had accidents statistics for stepped hulls as a percentage of all accidents per year, we'd see about the same number as the number of stepped hulls as a percentage of the total performance boat population.

    My 2 cents.

    Note to LPGA: since you're now an attorney (to suppliment your part-time position as a marine engineer?), one would think that a person who nominally makes a living interpreting the English language would, in fact, be able to write in it. "Lyods of London" and whatnot. I mean, when I try to figure out what you're trying to say, I feel like this guy...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by dockrocker; 04-28-2004 at 02:10 PM.

  2. #172
    Registered Gold Member DoTheMath's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Ma. / Lake Winni., NH
    It was that Four Winns knock-off of the Donzi Classic line, pretty sure it was called the "U-19" or some letter / number model designation...

  3. #173
    My Boats:
    38 Jupiter CC, Miss GEICO
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Boca Raton, FL


    Originally posted by T2x

    A lawyer..........

    with an "A" in his moniker.....

    annoying....yet....somehow demonic

    .........exhibiting an ability to prove that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    Tell me Mr.2106...... do you live in St. Petersburg?

    T2x.......... jus' tryin' ta be fren'ly



    I've been holding it in for fear I might get sued!!!!

    Detective t2x I presume
    Last edited by Maximus; 04-28-2004 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #174
    Drive to arrive alive!!! Platinum Member WARPARTY36's Avatar
    My Boats:
    2014 Cigarette 39 GTS
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Lloyd's of London is probably the largest insurance company in the world. We occasionally have their inspectors in to inspect some of our offshore oilfield equipment. They insure the majority of the offshore rigs in the world. A little off topic, but there is an answer.
    They call me BUBBA like one of them big ol' redneck boys............Can you believe that???

  5. #175
    JC Performance Engines Gold Member Stormrider's Avatar
    My Boats:
    2003 28 Pantera
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Long Island, NY
    The way I see it is this:

    1. Newbie buys NEW boat.
    2. Most new boats have steps.
    3. Newbie wrecks new boat(via spinout or rollover or whatever.
    4. Therefore most newbies will wreck stepped hull boats.
    Inexperience has much to do w/ it.

    Damn, even pleasure bowriders are now getting steps.
    It's not easy to buy a new boat now without them.

    As far as design and cars.
    The 1980(+) 930 Porsche Turbo was an awsome machine. This was also a hard beast to tame for a novice. I've heard too many stories of guys spinning them out w/ too much oversteer.
    But to the experience pro... it was a dream.
    With great power, comes great responsibility.

  6. #176
    Registered IDRPSTF's Avatar
    My Boats:
    Whatever you missed your payment on
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    In your driveway while you sleep
    The SCOPE folks seem to be keeping the wet side down. I think it is something to do with being somewhere on the Poodle food chain, and the fenders being out help offset the radial distomitry of the flux capacitor on every third banana hammock rotation. I do believe a famous SCOPE member literally blew the "doors" off his boat this weekend though.
    Have you ever had D-MAN look down on you from above with that fatherly "What the Hell are you doing Dummy?" Look? I didnt think so!

    SCOPE guys dont wreck because we dont want to hear the lecture that will fallow.

    Im afraid to get up on plane aorund him!

    Sydways- your killin me!

  7. #177
    Rob VIP Member Strip Poker 388's Avatar
    My Boats:
    Hustler 388
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    He who speaks less usually speaks more

    I am glade there OK to learn form it.


    Boost makes up for Cubic Inchs

  8. #178
    Forum Regulator VIP Member Sydwayz's Avatar
    My Boats:
    37' Active Thunder AVH; 17' Speedliner Cat OB
    Join Date
    May 2001

  9. #179
    Registered PhantomChaos's Avatar
    My Boats:
    Formula FASTech 382 Sunseeker Apache 45
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Bell Canyon, CA
    Look over there!!!!! Someone lost the hatch on a Gladiator!!! Guess he forgot to put it down!

  10. #180
    Federal Guidelines:
    In any jurisdiction one must prove that the product is defective. There are three types of product defects that incur liability in manufacturers and suppliers: design defects, manufacturing defects, and defects in marketing. Design defects are inherent; they exist before the product is manufactured. While the item might serve its purpose well, it can be unreasonably dangerous to use due to a design flaw. On the other hand, manufacturing defects occur during the construction or production of the item. Only a few out of many products of the same type are flawed in this case. Defects in marketing deal with improper instructions and failures to warn consumers of latent dangers in the product.'s the latter part of the law that concerns me the most...

    just posted as an fyi...not suggesting anything...but knowledge is power.....what you see above is direct from the books....just an implications to anyone or anybody living or deceased...ok?
    Last edited by LPA2106; 04-28-2004 at 02:49 PM.

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