What size oil cooler do I need ?
10-20-2005, 07:17 PM
#21
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Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Originally Posted by Stingray69
Wow, this thread threw me good.
I have a new 580 hp Gen 6 502.
I am ready to plumb my oil system. I have single remote filter mounted, (not dril/tap'd for sender), using Wix and NAPA racing filters , Canton oil thermostat mounted (215*), 3X22 Eddie combo coolermounted, and I'm all ready to run the -10 SS braid and sweep 90*hose ends, of off straight 1/2npt X -10 adapters. I'm keeping both 30psi oil bypass valves in the filter pad. The return one, in attempt to prevent drainback from the high-on-transom remote filter.
I'm running Gen V sea water/fuel pumps, using a Hardin water circ. pump, and running 142 water thermostat.
I've heard this Hyd roller vs synthetic oil statement before, and before I pour in my 20-50 Syntec blend, for initial post- dyno startup, (and storage,
), and the M1 gold cap in spring,
Teague, Does this include me if I only ever go 5700 rpm?! Custom cam 603/637 lift, Morel lifters, springs 130# on the seat , Crane Gold roller rockers.
Second question, Teague, I will be reading the oil temp thru side of a 12Qrt. Steph's offshore pan. What is the limit of oil temp in pan?
Number 3 question, for everybody, Do ya think I'll have oil temp problems?My hose routing was to be: 1) block filter pad to filter, 2) filter to oil therm, 3) oil therm to cooler, 4)cooler back to oil therm, 5) oil therm back to center of block filter pad. Have I got the equipment and am I doing it right?
I have a new 580 hp Gen 6 502.
I am ready to plumb my oil system. I have single remote filter mounted, (not dril/tap'd for sender), using Wix and NAPA racing filters , Canton oil thermostat mounted (215*), 3X22 Eddie combo coolermounted, and I'm all ready to run the -10 SS braid and sweep 90*hose ends, of off straight 1/2npt X -10 adapters. I'm keeping both 30psi oil bypass valves in the filter pad. The return one, in attempt to prevent drainback from the high-on-transom remote filter.
I'm running Gen V sea water/fuel pumps, using a Hardin water circ. pump, and running 142 water thermostat.
I've heard this Hyd roller vs synthetic oil statement before, and before I pour in my 20-50 Syntec blend, for initial post- dyno startup, (and storage,
), and the M1 gold cap in spring, Teague, Does this include me if I only ever go 5700 rpm?! Custom cam 603/637 lift, Morel lifters, springs 130# on the seat , Crane Gold roller rockers.
Second question, Teague, I will be reading the oil temp thru side of a 12Qrt. Steph's offshore pan. What is the limit of oil temp in pan?
Number 3 question, for everybody, Do ya think I'll have oil temp problems?My hose routing was to be: 1) block filter pad to filter, 2) filter to oil therm, 3) oil therm to cooler, 4)cooler back to oil therm, 5) oil therm back to center of block filter pad. Have I got the equipment and am I doing it right?
1. When running a remote oil cooler and filter on a Gen VI block we recommend to remove the the bypass in the center
and leave the one in the block on the outside or plug it. Allows the oil to return to the block.
2. Syntec or not to Syntec? breaking in the piston rings take longer to seat, roller lifters slide instead of roll. Our choice is for engines up to 400hp is SAE 40WT Racing and 500hp to 1000hp is SAE 50WT Racing(We prefer Kendall GT1) Multi-weights tend to break down.
If you have to use synthetic oils in the engine try this after the first 30 hour break-in.
3.TCM recommends the oil temp sender to be installed in the remote oil filter head after the oil cooler so we can see the temp. returning to back to the engine block.(not elevated oil pan temps). See attached diagram of our oil cooling system....
10-20-2005, 08:17 PM
#22
Gold Member
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Originally Posted by teaguecustommarine
1. When running a remote oil cooler and filter on a Gen VI block we recommend to remove the the bypass in the center
and leave the one in the block on the outside or plug it. Allows the oil to return to the block.
2. Syntec or not to Syntec? breaking in the piston rings take longer to seat, roller lifters slide instead of roll. Our choice is for engines up to 400hp is SAE 40WT Racing and 500hp to 1000hp is SAE 50WT Racing(We prefer Kendall GT1) Multi-weights tend to break down.
If you have to use synthetic oils in the engine try this after the first 30 hour break-in.
3.TCM recommends the oil temp sender to be installed in the remote oil filter head after the oil cooler so we can see the temp. returning to back to the engine block.(not elevated oil pan temps). See attached diagram of our oil cooling system....
and leave the one in the block on the outside or plug it. Allows the oil to return to the block.
2. Syntec or not to Syntec? breaking in the piston rings take longer to seat, roller lifters slide instead of roll. Our choice is for engines up to 400hp is SAE 40WT Racing and 500hp to 1000hp is SAE 50WT Racing(We prefer Kendall GT1) Multi-weights tend to break down.
If you have to use synthetic oils in the engine try this after the first 30 hour break-in.
3.TCM recommends the oil temp sender to be installed in the remote oil filter head after the oil cooler so we can see the temp. returning to back to the engine block.(not elevated oil pan temps). See attached diagram of our oil cooling system....
...the earth is round not flat..get over this flat-topping stuff..every engine in the world uses rollers and synthetic oil these days...something must be in California drinking water...
Last edited by Hydrocruiser; 10-20-2005 at 08:38 PM.
10-20-2005, 10:41 PM
#23
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Sting,
Like Teague said remove the center bypass in the pad.
Some will remove the bypass in the side of the pad also, and plug it so all oil will return to the engine. That's fine, unless your filter becomes plugged, which it probably would not. But, Murphy's law.... So, if you plug the side bypass hole it might be a good idea to go with an oil filter that has a built in bypass. Just a thought.
Synthetic vs dino oil....Like Hydrocruiser says the world is round, not flat. I understand that Merc is now pushing a synth/dino blend. They recommended Mrec brand dino only, until they slapped their label on the blended stuff. So now that they have their label on it, it's ok...right?
When my engine was new, for break in I ran about 5-6 hrs. with dino oil then drained the oil and pulled the filter. My engine guy cut the filter open to inspect for bad stuff and found none....good. Added fresh dino and filter and ran for about 12-15 hours and changed the oil and filter again, checked filter for bad stuff again, found no bad stuff....good. Did one more dino oil change after that, and then started using full synthetic and never looked back. Just completed the 3rd season with the engine (ZZ502/502...another no no according to some). Have not torn it down. No known reason to, runs the same now as it did 3 seasons ago. No change/decrease in operation, speed/performance.
I may well be wrong here, but, I believe I read an article in Power Boat mag where Bob Teague said synthetic was ok. I think the article referenced valve spring pressure as part of the topic. Sorry, the article was in the mag about a year or so ago, so I don't remember the details. Maybe teaguecustommarine can shed some light on this??
You know my wiew on where the oil temp sender should be, after the oil leaves the engine, and before it goes into the cooler. That way I can monitor oil temp at the hottest point. But as you know, there are other opinions on this from people more knowledgeable than me. I plan to pull the ZZ in the spring or next fall for a few upgrades. And I plan to add a oil temp sender to the pan. Yep....I'll have two then. Guess I like play'n it safe. Plus, the guru's are probably right.
Best of luck with the new mill. Post the news after you've had the chance to wring it out.
Bill
Like Teague said remove the center bypass in the pad.
Some will remove the bypass in the side of the pad also, and plug it so all oil will return to the engine. That's fine, unless your filter becomes plugged, which it probably would not. But, Murphy's law.... So, if you plug the side bypass hole it might be a good idea to go with an oil filter that has a built in bypass. Just a thought.
Synthetic vs dino oil....Like Hydrocruiser says the world is round, not flat. I understand that Merc is now pushing a synth/dino blend. They recommended Mrec brand dino only, until they slapped their label on the blended stuff. So now that they have their label on it, it's ok...right?
When my engine was new, for break in I ran about 5-6 hrs. with dino oil then drained the oil and pulled the filter. My engine guy cut the filter open to inspect for bad stuff and found none....good. Added fresh dino and filter and ran for about 12-15 hours and changed the oil and filter again, checked filter for bad stuff again, found no bad stuff....good. Did one more dino oil change after that, and then started using full synthetic and never looked back. Just completed the 3rd season with the engine (ZZ502/502...another no no according to some). Have not torn it down. No known reason to, runs the same now as it did 3 seasons ago. No change/decrease in operation, speed/performance.
I may well be wrong here, but, I believe I read an article in Power Boat mag where Bob Teague said synthetic was ok. I think the article referenced valve spring pressure as part of the topic. Sorry, the article was in the mag about a year or so ago, so I don't remember the details. Maybe teaguecustommarine can shed some light on this??
You know my wiew on where the oil temp sender should be, after the oil leaves the engine, and before it goes into the cooler. That way I can monitor oil temp at the hottest point. But as you know, there are other opinions on this from people more knowledgeable than me. I plan to pull the ZZ in the spring or next fall for a few upgrades. And I plan to add a oil temp sender to the pan. Yep....I'll have two then. Guess I like play'n it safe. Plus, the guru's are probably right.
Best of luck with the new mill. Post the news after you've had the chance to wring it out.
Bill
10-21-2005, 08:05 AM
#24
Registered
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Kidnova, I also broke in my engine with dino oil. 10 hrs on 10-40, I wanted something that would flow easily in cool spring weather, then changed to 15-50 Mobil 1 before the first poker run. At the end of the season I pulled the engines to deal with some other issues but the cam and lifters looked like new. I'm a lot more worried about the needle bearings getting enough lubrication than I am about the roller flat spotting.
Stingray, that valve spring seat pressure seems a little light. Even Crane is recommending 150 now. Alot of guys I know are going with 160 -170. Valve float kills power and damages parts.
Stingray, that valve spring seat pressure seems a little light. Even Crane is recommending 150 now. Alot of guys I know are going with 160 -170. Valve float kills power and damages parts.
10-21-2005, 08:23 AM
#25
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Originally Posted by PatriYacht
Stingray, that valve spring seat pressure seems a little light. Even Crane is recommending 150 now. Alot of guys I know are going with 160 -170. Valve float kills power and damages parts.
10-21-2005, 09:17 AM
#26
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Originally Posted by Hydrocruiser
...the earth is round not flat..get over this flat-topping stuff..every engine in the world uses rollers and synthetic oil these days...something must be in California drinking water...
10-21-2005, 10:51 AM
#28
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
Good ? on where to filter. Seems that thinner/warmer oil would go through a smaller micron filter.
Better than cooler thicker oil going through a larger micron filter?
The warmer oil through the finer filter is my choice. I could be wrong.....it happens frequently.
Better than cooler thicker oil going through a larger micron filter?
The warmer oil through the finer filter is my choice. I could be wrong.....it happens frequently.
10-21-2005, 11:39 AM
#29
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Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
What concerns me is when oil looses it's cushioning/lubricity affect due to viscocity loss. This is what hurts engines. Viscosity is lost first temporarily, then permanently due to cycling up to an elevated temp, or dwell time there. Therefore to me it is most important to know what max temp the oil is seeing. We know where oil starts loosing viscocity from viscocity curves. Knowing what temp the oil in going back into the engine means little as long as you know it's max temp never exceeded the thermal breakdown temp.
Put the sender before the cooler would be my suggestion. Also I don't know why you would want the filter after the cooler? Seems the cooler would just get contaminated for no reason.
BT
Put the sender before the cooler would be my suggestion. Also I don't know why you would want the filter after the cooler? Seems the cooler would just get contaminated for no reason.
BT
Last edited by blue thunder; 10-21-2005 at 11:42 AM.
10-21-2005, 11:39 AM
#30
Registered
Re: What size oil cooler do I need ?
I have my oil pressure sensor in the front of the block. It measures after the fiter, cooler, thermostat and about 10 feet of hose. On cold startup it reads almost 100 lbs at 1000 rpm. I would guess that the cold oil is going through the filter just fine. I use a standard size Delco filter.
