Extruded Honed?
12-22-2005, 10:21 AM
#51
Re: Extruded Honed?
[QUOTE=tomcat]If you want more power then change to a single plane intake, port the heads, and run a bigger cam. That engine will make 1000 HP. Dean Nickerson does exactly that using a 750 carb in one of our supercooler boxes. But he's spinning the engine at 6000+ RPM and 9 psi boost.
QUOTE]
As always Tom...A good answer
That's actually what I meant in my prior post when I wrote "you mean like this"
Smitty, sounds very similar to the cam I'm running 236/244 112 .610/.632 and we all know what that is
Guess it has it's rep for a reason
Dave
QUOTE]
As always Tom...A good answer
That's actually what I meant in my prior post when I wrote "you mean like this"
Smitty, sounds very similar to the cam I'm running 236/244 112 .610/.632 and we all know what that is
Guess it has it's rep for a reason
Dave
12-22-2005, 10:52 AM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by stevesxm
and therein lay the logic trap..... your point about your truck exactly correct... i had a for f350 superduty that went alongside my buddies... he did the same things ( essentially you did) and got ok results.... not sure 5mpg but either way...positive results.... but the truck would then no long pass a state inspection for emmissions .... and therin lay the answer...
for street vehicles the mfg give up power all the time to operate within state and federal regulations, cafe standards and christ knows what else....
not the case here.
merc could and would do what is economically and reasonabbly feasable to build performance... period. no emissions...no noise, no restrictions of any type.... just build a good solid hi performance motor for the general market... and at 415 or 425 or whatever it is , it is exactly that...EXACTLY why i bought them... but i have to tell you that there are some magic numbers in the consumer base and also in the structural arena.... and in a structural sense, 415/425 vs 450ish is no difference at all but in the CONSUMER market 450/500 is a magic number
i maintain that if it was as simple as suggested that it would be insane for them not to be doing it... it is a complete no brainer for them.... 8 % more power for 25 bucks worth of machine time ... are you kidding me ? they would be on that like .... like..... well fur on the easter bunny.
remember those commercials.... " we drained ALL the oil out of this car and drove it cross country with better milage and no fuel at all "
this is the same deal.
for street vehicles the mfg give up power all the time to operate within state and federal regulations, cafe standards and christ knows what else....
not the case here.
merc could and would do what is economically and reasonabbly feasable to build performance... period. no emissions...no noise, no restrictions of any type.... just build a good solid hi performance motor for the general market... and at 415 or 425 or whatever it is , it is exactly that...EXACTLY why i bought them... but i have to tell you that there are some magic numbers in the consumer base and also in the structural arena.... and in a structural sense, 415/425 vs 450ish is no difference at all but in the CONSUMER market 450/500 is a magic number
i maintain that if it was as simple as suggested that it would be insane for them not to be doing it... it is a complete no brainer for them.... 8 % more power for 25 bucks worth of machine time ... are you kidding me ? they would be on that like .... like..... well fur on the easter bunny.
remember those commercials.... " we drained ALL the oil out of this car and drove it cross country with better milage and no fuel at all "
this is the same deal.
I agree, and I doubt on a stock motor there would any noticable gains.
On the Mercury hp numbers I don't agree. I beleive that they purposely keep the numbers of the black motors at a certain level so as to not compete with their blue motors. Just an opinion, so in my opinion if they could make an easy 8% gain in hp it would be more detramental to them than beneficial. The hp 500's were only rated at 475hp. At a cost increase of 8 or 10k, plus they came with xz and xr drives who would pay the difference? How would they push the more expensive drives if they had a black motor with 450 hp and a standard drive? Could they justify buying and XZ for 25 more hp? Basically they could have thrown a bigger cam in the 502mag for almost no extra cost and made that 25hp easy. It already comes with a forged crank, 4 bolt main, rec. port heads, and plently of good parts more than capable of handling another 25hp. The stock cams in those motors are tiny, and they are tiny to restrict the hp numbers.
12-22-2005, 11:25 AM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by BADKACHINA
I agree, and I doubt on a stock motor there would any noticable gains.
On the Mercury hp numbers I don't agree. I beleive that they purposely keep the numbers of the black motors at a certain level so as to not compete with their blue motors. Just an opinion, so in my opinion if they could make an easy 8% gain in hp it would be more detramental to them than beneficial. The hp 500's were only rated at 475hp. At a cost increase of 8 or 10k, plus they came with xz and xr drives who would pay the difference? How would they push the more expensive drives if they had a black motor with 450 hp and a standard drive? Could they justify buying and XZ for 25 more hp? Basically they could have thrown a bigger cam in the 502mag for almost no extra cost and made that 25hp easy. It already comes with a forged crank, 4 bolt main, rec. port heads, and plently of good parts more than capable of handling another 25hp. The stock cams in those motors are tiny, and they are tiny to restrict the hp numbers.
On the Mercury hp numbers I don't agree. I beleive that they purposely keep the numbers of the black motors at a certain level so as to not compete with their blue motors. Just an opinion, so in my opinion if they could make an easy 8% gain in hp it would be more detramental to them than beneficial. The hp 500's were only rated at 475hp. At a cost increase of 8 or 10k, plus they came with xz and xr drives who would pay the difference? How would they push the more expensive drives if they had a black motor with 450 hp and a standard drive? Could they justify buying and XZ for 25 more hp? Basically they could have thrown a bigger cam in the 502mag for almost no extra cost and made that 25hp easy. It already comes with a forged crank, 4 bolt main, rec. port heads, and plently of good parts more than capable of handling another 25hp. The stock cams in those motors are tiny, and they are tiny to restrict the hp numbers.
Merc designed these engines to be used in a large variety of applications from Fishing boats to Cruisers to Runabouts to Sport boats. High performance is only a small piece of the pie and that is where Merc. Racing come in to play.
Do you think a fellow with a 40' Searay would except overhauling his engines at 250 or even 500hours?
The black engines are designed with mild cams for longevity, 1000 or even 2000 hours.
Only us speed crazy boaters don't mind pulling and engine to rebuild it every 2-3years. Hell, I think that is a big part of the hobby for a lot of us...
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12-22-2005, 11:38 AM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by Pat McPherson
Oh, I think you've got this one all wrong...
Merc designed these engines to be used in a large variety of applications from Fishing boats to Cruisers to Runabouts to Sport boats. High performance is only a small piece of the pie and that is where Merc. Racing come in to play.
Do you think a fellow with a 40' Searay would except overhauling his engines at 250 or even 500hours?
The black engines are designed with mild cams for longevity, 1000 or even 2000 hours.
Only us speed crazy boaters don't mind pulling and engine to rebuild it every 2-3years. Hell, I think that is a big part of the hobby for a lot of us...
Merc designed these engines to be used in a large variety of applications from Fishing boats to Cruisers to Runabouts to Sport boats. High performance is only a small piece of the pie and that is where Merc. Racing come in to play.
Do you think a fellow with a 40' Searay would except overhauling his engines at 250 or even 500hours?
The black engines are designed with mild cams for longevity, 1000 or even 2000 hours.
Only us speed crazy boaters don't mind pulling and engine to rebuild it every 2-3years. Hell, I think that is a big part of the hobby for a lot of us...
That sounds reasonable.
12-22-2005, 03:25 PM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by stevesxm
except everyone keeps saying that my BLACK mag mpi are gonna be dead at 500 to 750.... nobody at all is talking 1000 or more...
I've got a friend with twin 330HP/454s in a Blackfin sport fish. 2200 hours and counting...
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12-22-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Originally Posted by Pat McPherson
Well if they were well maintained and got run at 3500 rpm most of their life, 1000+ hours is not out of the question.
I've got a friend with twin 330HP/454s in a Blackfin sport fish. 2200 hours and counting...
I've got a friend with twin 330HP/454s in a Blackfin sport fish. 2200 hours and counting...
Steve I also have a friend with over 650 hours on his black 454 and he has little or no oil usage or blowby. I think good maintenance is the key.
12-22-2005, 04:33 PM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
motors had 100 hrs on em when i got em and leak down was zero and the use no appreciable oil and run great... so i am confident in their condition... and i will maintain them properly... however i am likely to spend probably 70 % longer at WOT and max load then the prev owner did... i didn't buy this thing to just sit there and with the complete absence of any laws or enforcement down here, its likely to get a serious workout pretty routinely.
12-22-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: Extruded Honed?
Change your oil every 25 hours, use a good filter and good oil. If you don't use Merc stuff I like the 20/50 v-twin Mobil 1. You can do your drive at 50 hour intervals, along with your fuel filter/seperator and impeller.
