CcanDo

All opinions will be appreciated.....What would you think of closing the front,back and sides of a sheet metal blower intake ? Water would enter at one end and exit at the other,the same way an inter cooler works.

Heat transfer should dissipate from inside the runner through the aluminum into the water chamber...However,would the laminar flow keep the charge from contacting the runner ?

Payton

I think inside an intercooler there is a lot more surface area for the heat exchange to take place. Like the fins that are on the head of an air cooled engine. Now if you could add a lot of fins to each runner for the water to run over maybe.

bcarpman

Certainly wouldn't hurt. I'd need to see photo's of what you have now to get an idea of surface area. You don't need as much surface area as with an air-air intercooler, but you'll still need some.

Also depends a lot on the temp of the water and charge temp. If you're running 250 deg charge temps and have 60 deg water temps, pretty much any surface area would help.

Of course then you might end up with thermal shock issues on welds that were never meant for that (ie. water in the engine) and how will you bolt the manifold on if it's closed in on the top?

mcollinstn

Not enough surface area for the air to transfer much heat to the aluminum. Your idea would keep the aluminum near sea temp but the actual cooling efficiency of the unit to lower the intake charge would be minimal, especially at high flow rates (WOT).

But as is obvious, some benefit is better than none, and it will work to some degree. By the time you get finished fabbing it up and completing it, though, you may be better off just purchasing a "real" intercooler, or putting one on TOP of your sheetmetal intake. Dunno.

CcanDo

Background for the idea starts with concern for distribution through inter cooler fins that may bent,misfitted,corroded and misdirected.Further,there is water on top of the engine.

First thought was encasing the blower case with a water housing.However,Moonyham explains they have tried that.The problem they did not solve was tolerance control.The bearings were either to loose or to tight.

I'm not sure manifold heat soak,lifter valley cover temp and cylinder head heat transfer are not manageable,or can be influenced.

Thermal shock is a good point.As with the mooneyham case,there is expansion/contraction and work hardening.However,W
ilson and Hogan says no fear?

Heat sink fins attached to the runners should wick heat transfer and also serve as gussets.

As a baseline, maybe we should explore sheet metal vs. cast intakes and the benefits thereof.The water jacket would then become an option.Testing on the dyno would then include simply turning on the water.

Looking forward to your comments!

mcollinstn

fins on the outside of the runners will only serve to further bring the inside of the runners down to water temp. I am of the opinion that the aluminum-to-water part of the equation is adequate without the fins, although structurally they are a neat idea.

The air-to-aluminum part of the process is where you need more surface area.

i'm all in favor of you making a test unit and trying it out.

But why not go one better. Add an automotive style air conditioner compressor, and turn the sheetmetal intake box into the evaporator. Use a marine water coil condenser. That way you can run your intake at 40*F.

Ford and Benz have used refrigerated intercoolers on concept vehicles with great results. You can also solenoid the refrig lines to a cabin evaporator unit like the minivans use and when cruising or idling you can cool the cabin as well.

just letting my mind wander..

Payton

How much more open area is the with a sheetmetal intake versus Dart, Merlin or Team G? If you are now going to cool it to 40* maybe it could simply be added ( bolted on) to one of those.

tomcat

CcanDo:

Sorry, no way this is going to work. You need tremendous surface area on the air to metal side, that's why intercoolers are the size they are and have all those fins. Rule of thumb; to get 80% cooling effectiveness you need 1 in3 of core for every 2 HP. In each of those in3 there is at least 12 in2 surface area. So an 800 HP supercharged engine needs 4800 in2 of air to metal surface area, that's 33 ft2.

If you are concerned about water leaking into the engine use better construction and materials in the intercooler. Specify a burst pressure and use a relief valve on the strainer. I hear this concern being used as justification for remotely mounted intercoolers but for best air flow intercoolers need to be on top of the engine.

CcanDo

Guys your thoughts are refreshing !

The possibility of effectively air conditioning the charge is interesting.mcollinstn,do you see the charge going through evaporator fins ? If so,I'm concerned about long term consistent distribution flow.

Typically,when the engine is tested on the dyno,conditions are more favorable and the pull is short when compared to life in a boat.Therefore,to find beta durability and performance,fins in the charge path,concerns me.



I'm not sure that heat soak isn't the biggest concern.Granted,the super cooled F/A will make more safe power,but for how long, before other component tolerances change to an unacceptable level ?

Is it possible a water chamber manifold could significantly impact heat soak,tolerances and be tweaked into helping the charge temp ?

Don't give up on me yet !

PatriYacht

I've thought of doing this with a single plane x style manifold that has open space under the runners. All it would take would be 4 triangular pieces of aluminum and 2 tapped bungs. It would seem to be worth a few hp on a large engine.